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On Sat, I placed a weborder (CC order) with a major bike retailer for a blowout item (10 pack of tubes), & received a confirmation email. It stated the items & the total price. The CC was not charged. I called them 1st thing on Monday to confirm the order, but the told me the 10 pack inner-tubes were discontinued (despite them being advertised & letting me order them), & to choose another item. I received a confirming email to this effect.

from their website:
"... is not responsible for printing errors or other errors appearing in our catalogs or Web site"

Am I entitled to receive *equivalent* replacement inner-tubes at the same price? (from above, probably no)

Funny thing, the itemized list includes 10 inner-tubes at the *retail price* ($4.99), but the total reflects the blowout price of 10 innertubes for 9.99 Did they send me a *contract* that gives me the right to ask for 10 innertubes for the total price of 9.99?

I had a similar experience with another retailer (non MTB related), & they didn't have the blowout item despite their salesperson telling me so over the phone. Their response was to give me another item & half-price. (keep the customer happy, to avoid a bait-and-switch feeling)
 

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if the CC was charged, it is then a binding contract.


got a s2000 new for $22K because the finance guy mistyped the sale price. i signed, and payed a down. Then they called me a few days later trying to get me to bring the car back in saying it was a mistake. Basically told them tough, got a signed contract and was already financed througha a local credit union. oh man, i got calls at least a few times a day. It was quite funny actually
 

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Ninja
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Karma

I wouldn't brag about ripping someone off like that. $10,000. minimum, is a big one. :eek: If that is even true.

But on the karma side of things, car dealers do rip off people in big ways too. Used to be in the biz. But then again a lot of people roll out in negative profit deals too. :rolleyes:

But to ponder about "Contract" issues on a pack of tubes you knew were to cheap, get real. :confused:
 

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jkittlesen said:
That will come back to haunt you,that's stealing and you know it!

It is not stealing. Willing seller. Willing buyer. Part of the price of doing biz with a dealer is dealing with sales people who are looking out for the best interests of their boss, and THEN the buyer.

A contract is a contract. The salesman should be forced to pony up the difference.
 

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Linoleum Knife
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Not stealing

Business law 101

Offer + Acceptance = legally binding contract.

Same thing happened to me with a rebate. They wanted me to come back and refinance through them because they had accidentally credited me a rebate that I wasn't supposed to get.

Sorry charlie.

Don't feel bad for the poor car dealership. They make more money through unscrupulous business tactics, shady financing language and misrepresentation in a day than most of us make in a year.
 

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No, a charged CC does not equal a contract. An advertisement does not automatically create a contract. An offer must made to a specific person, and that is why "contracts" such as an advertisements are not enforceable.

As for the car... I don't believe it. given a mistake such as the one you described, and a loss of 10k for the dealership, they would have sued you, and you would have lost. Not to mention they signed something for which NEITHER party bargained for i.e. a price you and the dealership did not bargain for, you have also admitted you let them continue with a contract you knew had a material error in its terms as a result of a typo. You can't do that and have the contract enforced in court.

Either the car is not worth what you thought it was and the dealership just said screw it, or you will be sued someime soon.


randomsurplus said:
if the CC was charged, it is then a binding contract.


got a s2000 new for $22K because the finance guy mistyped the sale price. i signed, and payed a down. Then they called me a few days later trying to get me to bring the car back in saying it was a mistake. Basically told them tough, got a signed contract and was already financed througha a local credit union. oh man, i got calls at least a few times a day. It was quite funny actually
 

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the car dealership did try to intimidate me with their lawyer, but as far as I remember, the number is what I negotiated. tough luck Dublin Honda !
 

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They can't sue you if they made a mistake on the contract and didn't catch it. No matter what has been stated verbally (ie bargained for), it's the final signed contract that will hold up in court.

This is why you should always read all of any contract, either taking it home to have enough time or inserting a clause that the contract can be cancelled within 24 hours by either party.

From the personal side, my concience would probably get to me on this one. I'm not sure how I would handle this one...


round00 said:
As for the car... I don't believe it. given a mistake such as the one you described, and a loss of 10k for the dealership, they would have sued you, and you would have lost. Not to mention they signed something for which NEITHER party bargained for i.e. a price you and the dealership did not bargain for, you have also admitted you let them continue with a contract you knew had a material error in its terms as a result of a typo. You can't do that and have the contract enforced in court.

Either the car is not worth what you thought it was and the dealership just said screw it, or you will be sued someime soon.
 

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basicly, if you got the stuff, they can't charge you for more. if you didn't get anything, they are not obligated to sell you the product at a price that was misprinted.
 

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kgardnez said:
They can't sue you if they made a mistake on the contract and didn't catch it. No matter what has been stated verbally (ie bargained for), it's the final signed contract that will hold up in court.

This is why you should always read all of any contract, either taking it home to have enough time or inserting a clause that the contract can be cancelled within 24 hours by either party.

From the personal side, my concience would probably get to me on this one. I'm not sure how I would handle this one...
Sorry, you are wrong. Every day, in many courts, contracts are rewritten, reformed, and rescinded for many differents reasons. Just because you have a signed contract, doesn't mean it is enforceable. One reason for not enforcing a contract is unconscionability. If this guy bargained for a price, noticed there had been a typo so he gets the car at 2/3 the bargained for price, says nothing, signs the contract and runs out of there ... this is unconscionable and probably would not be enoforced by a court. If the dealer just did not realize the value of the car and sold the car for less than it is worth, it would be a different story. But that is not what happened here, or so said the guy who bought the car.

randomsurplus said:
the car dealership did try to intimidate me with their lawyer, but as far as I remember, the number is what I negotiated. tough luck Dublin Honda !
As far as you remember , "the number is what I negotiated"??? What does this mean? It seems to me either (1) you don't know what you are talking about i.e. your math on the purchase is all messed up and you don't know how much you really paid for the car i.e. you are telling us you got away with something and you might not, in reality, got away with anything, or (2) you lied to the lawyer and dealership (and us on this forum) about what you negotiated with the salesperson (after the fact), and are thus a dishonest person (and if you noticed, which you "say" you did, the contract had a typo, you are definitely a dishonest person).

Contracts are reformed by courts all the time for unconscionability. You may have gotten lucky because it was not worth it for them to come after you. Or, you may have a law suit coming your way??

Karma my friend ... I hope you are never on the side of the one getting screwed ... but karma has a way of putting people on the other side.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
randomsurplus said:
if the CC was charged, it is then a binding contract.


got a s2000 new for $22K because the finance guy mistyped the sale price. i signed, and payed a down. Then they called me a few days later trying to get me to bring the car back in saying it was a mistake. Basically told them tough, got a signed contract and was already financed througha a local credit union. oh man, i got calls at least a few times a day. It was quite funny actually
Booya! More power to ya. If anything, it is karma being brought back to them. Those ba$tards (car dealerships) are always taking advantage of other people. Generally, they're in it for the commission, nothing else.
 

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Okay, I've been biting my tongue but I have to add a couple of things.....

The error with the S2000 sale contract is called a scrivener's error. It is something that clearly was not inline with the intent of the dealer who drafted the contract. If I were representing the car dealership I would be very confident that the courts would correct the contract. Now, if the dealership decided to let it go for PR reasons, that is another thing but they had legal standing to go to court and have the contract corrected.

Second, a contract requires offer, acceptance, AND CONSIDERATION. Hence, there is no consideration from an ad, so it is not a contract. Well, that and it lacks the required information: identification of parties, time of performance, etc. Because it is being sold to an individual, the contract would not be covered under the UCC.
 

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gabe0807 said:
The error with the S2000 sale contract is called a scrivener's error.
Thanks to the (presumably) law student or lawyer.... People, remember, and more for you than some car dealership... just because you signed something doesn't mean you made some kind of eternal promise. People can, and do very often, get out of contracts for many different reasons.

I have a feeling the people who believe in the 'signed contract = ironclad commitment' are the same ones who believe they can keep the mistakenly issued $1,000,000 check from the IRS...

Although many people do not believe it, the law has been created and manipulated with an eye to fairness and justice.

Just face it, it was a dishonest thing to do... I agree with those who said car dealerships (like a lot of LBSs) are thieves and dirt balls themselves. So does that mean we all should be liars and cheats as well?

What if the poor finance guy got fired, missed his mortgage payment, pissed off his wife, lost his car... because you wanted to rip off the dealership because they have ripped off other consumers before?

Prechrysler said:
Booya! More power to ya. If anything, it is karma being brought back to them. Those ba$tards (car dealerships) are always taking advantage of other people. Generally, they're in it for the commission, nothing else.

Yeah, "booya" f%cker.
 

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On the S2000

With a signed contract that was drafted by the dealership you are just as likely to find a lawyer that will help you defend your position as you are to run into the folks on this forum who tell you that you’re screwed. In the end the lawyer fees will likely run more than you ever saved/the dealership lost and you'll just be funding more damn lawyers.

Dealerships are largely into dirty business (like lawyers) so while they deserve to be screwed it's like wrestling with a pig, even if you win you smell like **** afterwards.

On the tubes

Let it go, they had a misprint and never initiated the sale (charged CC), they're covered by the small print covering and errors in their advertising.

We'll let the lawyers keep debating this; if you read the law enough you can find points reinforcing any direction on just about any argument.
 

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kgardnez said:
On the S2000

With a signed contract that was drafted by the dealership you are just as likely to find a lawyer that will help you defend your position as you are to run into the folks on this forum who tell you that you’re screwed.
Actually, since this is not a contingency type case, he could easily find a lawyer provided he could pay the hourly rate.

Further, in this case, most likely, the dealership would be the party initiating the action, and thus the guy with the S2000 may HAVE to defend if he hopes to (1) keep his car and/or (2) not have to pay a lot of money.

You are right in one respect: it would probably, upon being sued, be better to just pay them what they ask for instead of hiring a lawyer to make some stupid argument about a signed contract being like stone.

kgardnez said:
We'll let the lawyers keep debating this; if you read the law enough you can find points reinforcing any direction on just about any argument.
You are right, to an extent. However, their are well settled rules of law that you will be hard pressed to overcome. In this case, because of the scrivener's error, I'll be a lot of lawyer's would advise this guy to pay the negotiated price instead of losing in court and getting a judgment against him. The law of error's such as this one is pretty settled.
 

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And what's wrong with commission

Prechrysler said:
Booya! More power to ya. If anything, it is karma being brought back to them. Those ba$tards (car dealerships) are always taking advantage of other people. Generally, they're in it for the commission, nothing else.
I just hate this 'two wrong's make a right' attitude.

First off, while I agree that car dealerships are unpleasant to deal with and sometimes shady, the fact is, they make an offer, the consumer can either accept it or reject it. They cannot 'take advantage' of anybody without consent, so is that really taking advantage of anything?

And yes, generally they are in it for the commission. Generally I go to work because I'm expecting a paycheck. While there are a few people in society who do their jobs because they love their job, or as a service (ie: clergy), the vast majority of us are 'in it for the commission'.

But my bottom line for that randomsurplus dude is what I said first. Two wrongs don't make a right. If you want to justify stealing $10K from a dealership by saying they've stolen it from other people, what's to stop some burgler from stealing $10K from you? After all, you just stole it from a dealership.
 
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