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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone care to write a few sentences to clarify why someone would buy a Light Eta vs. an RC2X vs a VF2 ???

I'm trying to decide which new 66 would be best for me.

I've had only 4 forks in my riding career, and simply do not have the experience to translate what "this and/or that" system will actually feel like, or offer, on the trail.

FWIW I have an '05 Z1 150mm. I like it a lot, and if it were 170mm I would not be looking into a new fork. The only complaint I have is that in order to achieve proper sag I have to run such low air pre load that it bottoms - so I sacrifice sag...
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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66 Light ETA; RC2 cartridge (basically like HSCV but with a low-speed compression adjustment in addition to rebound). This fork is ironically the heaviest of the bunch by about 20g (so only slightly the heaviest). One side coil, other side air. No need to buy extra springs. You can adjust the oil level if it bottoms. I have one on order.

66 RC2X; RC2x cartridge in one leg, normal RC2 cartridge in the other, the "x" signifies a high speed compression adjustment for the end stroke. Supposedly you use this adjustment if you are bottoming it, or for bigger jumps/drops. Traditionally compression adjustments are not the best way to keep a fork from bottoming. It remains to bee seen if the "high speed" compression adjustment will make it harsher, but the purpose of it is not clear. Is the purpose of this adjustment to keep it from bottoming off drops, if that is so, it might work great for one jump or drop, but if you are riding along it might make it feel harsh (similer effect to what I will describe below with the VF2). The point here is that the adjustment is not quite clear right now, whether or not it's for all-around riding and to make it more progressive, or to just keep it from bottoming. Those two things are different. You can also adjust the oil levels though to make this fork more progressive (making a fork more progressive is the preferred way to keep it from bottoming most of the time). This fork is the 2nd heaviest, and has dual coil springs. I don't know if it has the "air preload" system, but if not, you'd have to buy new coil springs if the stock ones do not work for you. This fork is meant to give the plushest and smoothest ride. The 66 Light should be the most similer to it, but it's for a dedicated DH/FR type bike. I didn't get this fork because I wanted the ETA function of the other 66.

66 SL; Air version, adjustable travel between 150 and 170mm, although those that have the fork are reporting that you can safely take it down to around 5" of travel if you want. The travel is adjusted with negative pressure, there is a main positive air pressure spring, and an air chamber called the PAR adjusts the bottom out resistance. The damping is provided by an RC2 cartridge, so it has the same damping adjustments as the 66 Light ETA.

66VF2; You don't want this fork. This is a 66 with Jr T type internals. No cartridge damper, rather it has a "ported damper" with a fixed orofice size, which the oil must flow through. If the oil flows through too fast it will "spike" and feel harsh. This would happen at high speeds in choppy terrain. The fork feels the same as the others on the showroom floor and on drops/jumps, but as speed increases, it will feel harsher. At speed, my description of the damping system is "feels like it's trying to break your wrists off". I'd stay away from this one, BUT if you are trying to spread the cost out, you could get this one and later upgrade to some sort of a cartridge version (like the 66 light eta?), but it would cost a bit more in the long run.
 

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Rollin'in'Zona said:
FWIW I have an '05 Z1 150mm. I like it a lot, and if it were 170mm I would not be looking into a new fork. The only complaint I have is that in order to achieve proper sag I have to run such low air pre load that it bottoms - so I sacrifice sag...
You need to increase the oil level. Start by unscrewing the top caps for both legs, then adding a cap-full of oil to each side. Then screw back down and ride, if it still bottoms, add oil in the same incriment. If it never achieves full travel, remove oil by sticking a straw down there and removing however much it pulls out at one time. The key is to move in small incriments to get the progressiveness where you want it, to keep from missing travel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Jayem said:
You need to increase the oil level. Start by unscrewing the top caps for both legs, then adding a cap-full of oil to each side. Then screw back down and ride, if it still bottoms, add oil in the same incriment. If it never achieves full travel, remove oil by sticking a straw down there and removing however much it pulls out at one time. The key is to move in small incriments to get the progressiveness where you want it, to keep from missing travel.
Cool - thanks for both posts Jayem! I intend to change the oil this week, so I'll play with level as well! Seems so obvious in retrospect... :rolleyes:

.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Jayem said:
66 Light ETA; RC2 cartridge (basically like HSCV but with a low-speed compression adjustment in addition to rebound). This fork is ironically the heaviest of the bunch by about 20g (so only slightly the heaviest). One side coil, other side air. No need to buy extra springs. You can adjust the oil level if it bottoms. I have one on order.

66 RC2X; RC2x cartridge in one leg, normal RC2 cartridge in the other, the "x" signifies a high speed compression adjustment for the end stroke. Supposedly you use this adjustment if you are bottoming it, or for bigger jumps/drops. Traditionally compression adjustments are not the best way to keep a fork from bottoming. It remains to bee seen if the "high speed" compression adjustment will make it harsher, but the purpose of it is not clear. Is the purpose of this adjustment to keep it from bottoming off drops, if that is so, it might work great for one jump or drop, but if you are riding along it might make it feel harsh (similer effect to what I will describe below with the VF2). The point here is that the adjustment is not quite clear right now, whether or not it's for all-around riding and to make it more progressive, or to just keep it from bottoming. Those two things are different. You can also adjust the oil levels though to make this fork more progressive (making a fork more progressive is the preferred way to keep it from bottoming most of the time). This fork is the 2nd heaviest, and has dual coil springs. I don't know if it has the "air preload" system, but if not, you'd have to buy new coil springs if the stock ones do not work for you. This fork is meant to give the plushest and smoothest ride. The 66 Light should be the most similer to it, but it's for a dedicated DH/FR type bike. I didn't get this fork because I wanted the ETA function of the other 66.
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Thanks Jayem. I just want to clarify - the RC2X double coil is the dedicated DH/FR fork, right?

I'm happy to hear what I have here re. the 66 Light ETA - that's the one I had decided on, as I am a big ETA fan on my Z1! But with the buzz about the RC2X, I figured I'd better learn about it before buying either, though.
 

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Rollin'in'Zona said:
Thanks Jayem. I just want to clarify - the RC2X double coil is the dedicated DH/FR fork, right?

I'm happy to hear what I have here re. the 66 Light ETA - that's the one I had decided on, as I am a big ETA fan on my Z1! But with the buzz about the RC2X, I figured I'd better learn about it before buying either, though.
As far as usage, they are all able to handle "DH/Extreme FR" in the words of marzocchi, but if you want to climb some, I'd say the SL or ETA model is the right one. If you are going to shuttle all the time, and don't care about climbing, then the RC2x is the one you want.
 

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Jayem said:
66VF2; You don't want this fork. This is a 66 with Jr T type internals. No cartridge damper, rather it has a "ported damper" with a fixed orofice size, which the oil must flow through. If the oil flows through too fast it will "spike" and feel harsh. This would happen at high speeds in choppy terrain. The fork feels the same as the others on the showroom floor and on drops/jumps, but as speed increases, it will feel harsher. At speed, my description of the damping system is "feels like it's trying to break your wrists off". I'd stay away from this one, BUT if you are trying to spread the cost out, you could get this one and later upgrade to some sort of a cartridge version (like the 66 light eta?), but it would cost a bit more in the long run.
The damping for the 66VF2 is different than the Junior T, isn't it? VF2 is more adjustable, and I remember someone saying on the forum that the VF2 was a big improvement on the SSV, but still not as good as HSCV.
 

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KonaStinky05 said:
The damping for the 66VF2 is different than the Junior T, isn't it? VF2 is more adjustable, and I remember someone saying on the forum that the VF2 was a big improvement on the SSV, but still not as good as HSCV.
It's speculation at this point, someone has said that the VF2 system got "changes" that some of the marz guys were asking for, but this is far from stubstancial, so I don't put any weight with it at this point.

If you "fix" VF2 completely, then it becomes as good as the higher priced models. Typically, the "VF", "SSV" and "SSVF" type forks are made to not perform to that higher level, so I'd be highly suspect untill I actually ride one.

Adjustability means nothing when the basic components do not exist to fix inherent problems. This is like saying that a fox fork is better because it has a compression and rebound adjustment, compared to a fork that just has a rebound adjustment. The problem is that adjustments do not = damping. You can have compression damping, and just not have an adjuster for it. The same goes for rebound, although the rebound usually needs more adjustment for different weight riders. Some adjustments only make forks feel worse, like overall "compression" adjustments.

I really doubt marzocchi would ever put out a "lower cost" damping system that works as well as the higher end stuff, and traditionally the lower end stuff is going to suck at something, like high speed impacts. If it doesn't suck at something, then there'd be no reason to buy the more expensive forks. From a business standpoint, the lower end forks will never be "fixed" untill marzocchi takes the same view as Fox does for suspension. Fox is completely different than marzocchi because ALL of their forks have great damping systems. On the higher end forks the only true difference is the addition of adjustments. The basic pistons and damping systems are the same. This is why there are no $200 fox forks. If marzocchi did the same thing, you'd see the prices shoot up accordingly. It's a balance and marzocchi gets a big chunk of lower-end OEM sales because you can't spec a $450 fox fork on a $600 bike, and these same low-end forks get sold to the public as well. This way a company can put a "66" on a cheaper freeride bike and market it with "170mm of travel front and rear and a marzocchi 66!", but unfortunatly there's a reason the bike is so cheap, because they've skimped somewhere. Even still, it means more sales for marzocchi.

Untill I actually try a "VF2" system that feels good on high speed impacts, I'm not going to believe that it's "that much better", the gap between all of the "ported damper" systems and HSCV is pretty large, and the faster you go the larget it gets. This is the aspect that needs addressing, but as I said, it will probably never really get fixed, unless marzocchi changes (and looses lots of OEM sales) or you just fork over the cash.
 

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The VF2 system does at least offer external rebound and compression dampning now.


How well does it work? That has yet to be seen.
 

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SSINGA said:
The VF2 system does at least offer external rebound and compression dampning now.

How well does it work? That has yet to be seen.
It already offered compression damping, now it has and adjustment, but as I explained above, that doesn't necessarily mean it's usefull.
 
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