[MaxxChris]

I have a few questions about tuning for you other 66 owners out there, and hopefully you can answer some of them.

1) How many clicks of compression should there be?
2) My compression knob gets harder to turn as I add compression dampening, is that norman?
3)The manual states that 15psi is the max preload air pressure, does that mean it is the max for the RC2 leg? or is that considered positive pressure?
4) What is the best way to keep it super plush, and minimize dive? I am still messing with it alot, but I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

I am a 185lb freerider/downhiller (for the most part, some all mountain riding from time to time) and its on an enduro 150mm. My current set up is 12psi in the RC2 Leg, 35Psi in the positive, 90 in the negative, 0 in the par, about 4 clicks of compression (from full open), and about mid way on the rebound.

 

[da_eddio]

you will probably get much better replies than mine from most of the turner forum and predominantly TNC, but i'll give it a crack while im here

1) there should be 30 clicks on compression end to end if im not mistaken
2) i dunno, but surely someone will answer lol
3) on the RC2 leg its considered the positive air, as well as the positive air chamber on the left leg so you can use more than 15psi
4) i was also asking about brake dive a little myself, best way is too fiddle with the compression a little, up it slightly to see if that helps, but too much will cause a loss in small bump compliance. (btw cant say ive totally "sorted" mine yet so anymore tips welcomed :thumbsup: )

check this out for some setup guides http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=187653

hope this helps till TNC arrives

 

[Renegade]

for the '06 66SL I strongly recommend that you put equal amounts of pressure in each positive chamber, as opposed to what you are doing now.

 

[MaxxChris]

for the '06 66SL I strongly recommend that you put equal amounts of pressure in each positive chamber, as opposed to what you are doing now.

Any particular reason why?

 

[Renegade]

Any particular reason why?

on the '06 model, the two positive chambers are your main springs. whether it's a fork, or any suspension component on any sort of vehicle, the springs should be as close to the same rate as possible as the opposing side. On forks where the leg pressure serves different functions, some variation is necessary, like the '07 66SL. You may find that having nearly identical air pressures helps eliminate your brake dive issues, as well as help decrease your stiction.
But what do I know about this fork? I've only owned one for over a year. I understand that TNC is the only guy in the world who knows anything about this fork. :madmax:

 

[TNC]

Maxx, for one, your fork is brand new, and they are relatively hard to get that sweet setup we all want until a bit of break-in occurs. However, you can still obviously get an acceptable ride until that occurs. Renegade's right on the '06 seeming to respond better to having equal air pressure in both legs, but the nice thing about this 66SL is that you can manipulate the chambers a good deal and get creative to achieve your preference. Here are my settings, at least for a base you can start from. I'm 185 without gear.

Both positive air chambers at 20psi. Negative chamber usually at 100psi (you can go down to 75). Compression set at 1 click in from fully open. Rebound set at 3 clicks in from fully open. PAR set at 0...PAR on this fork is only for bottomout and not mid-stroke progressiveness. Oil level is very low in both legs...just enough to provide proper bushing and cart lubrication in the Doppio leg and proper damping control in the RC2 leg. My putzing with finding the minimum oil level in the RC2 leg may be overkill and probably not necessary, but I get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that I have the largest volume of air to work with for tuning. Oh...I also run 5wt oil instead of the normally recommended 7.5wt.

On that issue of running uneven positive pressures in the two legs, I'd guess that you could affect the progressiveness of the fork to some degree by having a slightly higher pressure in the Doppio leg...at least it would seem logical. Nice thing is that you could easily experiment with this. Mine works great as is and doesn't exhibit excesssive dive or other bad habits like my '04 Z150SL did. I think the RC2 cart works much better with an air spring than the old HSCV cart did.

 

[da_eddio]

But what do I know about this fork? I've only owned one for over a year. I understand that TNC is the only guy in the world who knows anything about this fork.

hey renegade, no disrespect implied, only reason i mentioned TNC is cause he has helped me before and was one of the only names i could rememeber without trawling through the umpteen'billion 66sl threads

 

[da_eddio]

see, much better replies ^ lol :thumbsup:

 

[TNC]

Hey smarta$$!

on the '06 model, the two positive chambers are your main springs. whether it's a fork, or any suspension component on any sort of vehicle, the springs should be as close to the same rate as possible as the opposing side. On forks where the leg pressure serves different functions, some variation is necessary, like the '07 66SL. You may find that having nearly identical air pressures helps eliminate your brake dive issues, as well as help decrease your stiction.
But what do I know about this fork? I've only owned one for over a year. I understand that TNC is the only guy in the world who knows anything about this fork. :madmax:

Where do you think I got most of the setup tips to dial mine in? But come on dude...you went too far in that bushing polishing issue. I think you wear a belt and suspenders. Seriously though, I saved a ton of time getting mine set up by using the Turner forum. Why plow the same ground twice? And besides...those Homers over there are biggest and most anal bunch of tinkerers on the whole MTBR site. If it can be tweaked, changed, drilled, polished, ground, modified, or otherwise putzed with, they've probably done it...or screwed it up in the process. However, Rene, I'm still riding a Nomad.

 

[Renegade]

Hehehe, I couldn't resist dishin' out a little serving. No offense taken on anyone's part guys.
TNC, sorry to hear that you're still riding that inferior rig.:lol:
And what's wrong with honing the bushings? My forks are pluuuuuuuuuush!

 

[MaxxChris]

Any answers to my first questions about how many clicks there should be? Is it 30? because I am getting about 22, and on the compression, it get hard to turn as I add more, is that normal? I dialed out a lot of rebound, and went to 20psi in each positive, and it feels better, but the RC2 leg is more noisy on the rebound stroke, is that normal?

Thanks for all the replys so far.

 

[SSINGA]

Where do you think I got most of the setup tips to dial mine in? But come on dude...you went too far in that bushing polishing issue. I think you wear a belt and suspenders. Seriously though, I saved a ton of time getting mine set up by using the Turner forum. Why plow the same ground twice? And besides...those Homers over there are biggest and most anal bunch of tinkerers on the whole MTBR site. If it can be tweaked, changed, drilled, polished, ground, modified, or otherwise putzed with, they've probably done it...or screwed it up in the process. However, Rene, I'm still riding a Nomad.

cough...cough....I might have been the one to start the bushing polishing issue with some initial testing from JNC (HOMER extraordinaire like Renegade),as I am not one to futz around with the internals of suspension products . Marzocchi does this as part of the "WORKS" service for the 888 forks which I may have had done to mine - I ain't telling. JNC did his with some 3000 grit sandpaper and fork oil, Renegade used a hone. All I can say is that my fork has an extremely smooth stroke. Very coil-like.

My set-up 220lb rider - I have enough neg air to drop the travel to 6.25". 17-18psi in both positives and 20 in the PAR. Rebound is set semi slow and I have 4-5 clicks of compression. Oil is what ever Zocchi set it at when they did the works service...errr ahhh I mean replaced the lowers.

 

[TNC]

I don't know how many total clicks are in the RC2 damper, but it really doesn't make much difference since you do the adjustment from fully open. On the other hand, are you asking because you think you might have a problem with the damper?

 

[Renegade]

Any answers to my first questions about how many clicks there should be? Is it 30? because I am getting about 22, and on the compression, it get hard to turn as I add more, is that normal? I dialed out a lot of rebound, and went to 20psi in each positive, and it feels better, but the RC2 leg is more noisy on the rebound stroke, is that normal?

Thanks for all the replys so far.

MaxxChris, I don't think that it's normal for you to feel that the compression adjuster is hard to turn as you dial in more compression. You might check to see if the compression end of the RC2 cartridge is damaged in any way. If I was in this situation, I would remove the red compression knob [one screw], then turn the shaft with your fingers, and look to see if there is any wobble, or anything alse that looks or feels wrong.

 

[MaxxChris]

I will take the knob off and see in anything looks wrong. It seems to function fine, both rebound and compression, but the increasing force required to turn the knob was something I found interesting. Anyone else feel this?

 

[MaxxChris]

I just took the knob off and everything seems fine, it seems like the first 12 clicks or so from full open make the biggest difference, could someone see how many clicks they have from full open to close? Maybe for some reason mine is just not stoping when it should.

 

[Mountainbikextremist]

I will take the knob off and see in anything looks wrong. It seems to function fine, both rebound and compression, but the increasing force required to turn the knob was something I found interesting. Anyone else feel this?

Yeah, mine does that too. Its nothing to worry about though....:thumbsup:

 

[Bikezilla]

Mine compression knob also gets harder to turn after about midway. I think I get around 18-20 clicks total. Near the end it's very difficult to turn.

I'm a bit confused about the honing effects. Rene', how much stiction do you feel is attributed to the damper cart? IIRC some folks lubed the seals, then packed them with grease, then honed the bushings, and each time a fair bit of initial stiction returned. Mine has only small amt of first-bounce stiction, as typical on just about any Zoke I've owned. Not as buttery as my Pike but not particularly noticable outside the workshop.

Another question: Getting full travel has been tough for me. Anyone know what the RC2 oil volume should be? I just dropped from 210ml down to 190 but I haven't tested it yet.

Lastly does the compression knob affect the feel of the fork at very low speeds (like pushing on the bars) or just at riding speeds?

 

[Renegade]

I'm a bit confused about the honing effects. Rene', how much stiction do you feel is attributed to the damper cart? IIRC some folks lubed the seals, then packed them with grease, then honed the bushings, and each time a fair bit of initial stiction returned. Mine has only small amt of first-bounce stiction, as typical on just about any Zoke I've owned. Not as buttery as my Pike but not particularly noticable outside the workshop.

'Zilla, only one other mtbr member besides me has identified their doppio cartridge as the source of their stiction. When I honed my bushings, it made my '06 smoother, but it didn't fix my problem. When I got my '07, I immediately dropped the '07 internals into my '06 uppers and lowers. The result was a fork with absolutely no stiction. It proved that my doppio cartridge was the culprit, and not the fork chassis.
I tried packing the seals with grease as well; it didn't do a thing for me.

 

[TNC]

Yeah Zilla, on the full travel deal and oil volume, I think that's a big issue on all these Marz air forks. It was the same on my two '04 Z150SL models. I had to run the absolute minimum amount of oil to even get close to full travel...which those two forks never seemed to quite achieve.

On your 66 I'm sure you already have a low amount in your Doppio side. On the RC2 side I actually put in just enough oil to make the damper function, with a small additional amount to insure that the cart doesn't suck air. I do this by initially eyeballing a small amount of oil, like about 100cc, and stroking the damper rod. You can feel when there's insufficient oil in the damper. I add a little at a time until I can feel hydraulic resistance. At that point I just tip the bottle, adding a bit more, and tighten the damper cap back down. I air the fork back up and test the fork on small objects around the house, doing an exaggerated pumping of the fork on small obstacles to feel the damping. If I get any "give" in the hydraulic damping, I know the oil is too low. It's easy to tell because if it's low on oil, it feels like you just dropped your positive air pressures by at least half. I pop the RC2 top cap (release the air first, of course) adding about 25cc and try again. At this point I've only had to perform this last step one time. I've never experienced on-trail issues with this method, like the damping suddenly "going away".

This may sound very complicated and time consuming, but it's really not. After you've done the actual oil change, this whole oil level process really only takes minutes. After putzing with my Z150SLs, I feel that getting maximum air volume on these types of forks is critical to their getting full travel. After this process one might dump all the oil out of this RC2 leg and try to determine the exact amount required to operate the dampers, but I'm not sure how much oil might still be trapped in a nook or cranny of the leg or damper.

I know Renegade will administer payback for my "funning" of him burnishing his bushings, as I'm sure this level of oil level putzing falls into that same category...LOL!