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I don't do PC
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently changed the oil in my fork including the TST cart, I used some 7wt oil from a local shop. The fork feels much smoother and plush yet I think the fork oil weight might be too light cause the fork feels a tad soft and seems to ride lower in it's travel. I put the same amount in the fork that came out cause I liked the feel before the oil change, I tried adding a little bit of oil to the ETA/TAS side and I've also tried more air pressure than I was running before the oil change. I'm also getting a clunking/knocking noise sometimes and the fork just doesn't feel right. It does seem to ramp up nicely though and I'm not getting any bottoming. I have tried less rebound and more rebound to get rid of the knocking noise but it doesn't seem to do anything, kinda feels like the rebound is too fast but the manual says that noise means too much rebound??

Should I try and change the oil again with some standard 7.5 wt oil? Maybe I didn't get the oil change in the TST cart right, but it locks out and the adj. knob seems to work correctly also.

Thanks!
 

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"El Whatever"
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rroeder said:
I recently changed the oil in my fork including the TST cart, I used some 7wt oil from a local shop. The fork feels much smoother and plush yet I think the fork oil weight might be too light cause the fork feels a tad soft and seems to ride lower in it's travel. I put the same amount in the fork that came out cause I liked the feel before the oil change, I tried adding a little bit of oil to the ETA/TAS side and I've also tried more air pressure than I was running before the oil change. I'm also getting a clunking/knocking noise sometimes and the fork just doesn't feel right. It does seem to ramp up nicely though and I'm not getting any bottoming. I have tried less rebound and more rebound to get rid of the knocking noise but it doesn't seem to do anything, kinda feels like the rebound is too fast but the manual says that noise means too much rebound??

Should I try and change the oil again with some standard 7.5 wt oil? Maybe I didn't get the oil change in the TST cart right, but it locks out and the adj. knob seems to work correctly also.

Thanks!
Yeah... it looks like your oil wt is a bit too low. Did you tried crankig up the rebound up to eleven and cranking it down to minus 1? Look at the extremes and see what you get.

I would change the oil only on the TST. The rest of the oil can be anything as it doesn't really do any damping duties.

Another things to check are that the ETA spring is tight and that the TAS is correctly tightened to the ETA cartridge. Bikezilla and Jncarpenter told me to check for that when clunking develops in my AM1 (same as a Marathon XC, but different chassis and travel).

If you have nice ramp up and nice travel use, your oil height is spot on and if the lockout works, your TST is properly bled. The oil used on the TST Semi-bath side and the used on the ETA has no really damping duties, so you can go with heavier/ligther oil there.

Check first the TAS being tight on the ETA cart... if it doesn't solve the clunk, then change the oil in the TST.

I used a mix of 50%-50% of Yamalube Fork Oil (Synth-Mineral Oil blend) in 5 and 10wt's.
It seems to work just fine. The fork is very sensitive to adjustments. Maybe I have a few cc's more on the ETA side, but everything seems fine.

How noisy is your fork? My AM1 is a bit noisy making swooshing sounds when cycling.... nothing annoying, but my Magura was very silent compared to the Zoke.
 

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I don't do PC
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Warp, I went ahead and changed the oil in the TST cart and the fork with some Golden Spectro 125/150, I also checked the ETA cart and everything seemed tight and fine. The fork is working correctly and it does feel a bit firmer like it's not using the first half of the travel so easy. I put in around 45-50CC's in the TST side and 135-140CC's in the ETA side, I believe the rec'd amount is 40/135 but since I weigh 200lbs a little bit more is probably fine.

I'm gonna get out later so I will post how it feels, hopefully the knocking/clunking sound is gone too.
 

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"El Whatever"
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rroeder said:
Thanks Warp, I went ahead and changed the oil in the TST cart and the fork with some Golden Spectro 125/150, I also checked the ETA cart and everything seemed tight and fine. The fork is working correctly and it does feel a bit firmer like it's not using the first half of the travel so easy. I put in around 45-50CC's in the TST side and 135-140CC's in the ETA side, I believe the rec'd amount is 40/135 but since I weigh 200lbs a little bit more is probably fine.

I'm gonna get out later so I will post how it feels, hopefully the knocking/clunking sound is gone too.
Cool!!

Remember you can use the old method of putting oil by oil height on the TST forks on the ETA side. Anything between 50 and 60mm from top of the crown will do. More like 50 for your weight. To undo the topcap off the ETA simply hold the 12mm flats with a wrench, while you undo the topcap with the 21mm socket.

In my case, my socket has a bevel and (worst) I got a 12pt one. Needless to say, it's not up to the task, but fortunately, on the AM I could undo the caps with a plain crescent.

God Damns the foot nuts....
 

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I don't do PC
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, good news is the fork felt better, felt firmer and wasn't diving as much, bad news is the clunky/knocky noise is still there. It seems to be making the noise at top out or full extension, I tried adjusting the rebound back and forth and the TST adjustment but the noise was still there. It didn't make this noise before the first oil change so not sure what it is, the seals and bushings are fine and the fork has only 9 months riding on it.

Sugg's????
 

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"El Whatever"
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rroeder said:
Sugg's????
Increase rebound some to prevent top out?

Other than that, I can't figure anything out.
Impressive that the TST would be so sensitive to oil wt.... something to keep in mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Warp said:
Increase rebound some to prevent top out?
Thats what it feels like kinda, like the rebound is too fast, but I changed the setting from 2 clicks out to 10 clicks out from full slow and the noise was still there, I always ran it 5 clicks out before the oil change.
 

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Team Sanchez
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Hey Rick, a guy your size should be running a little heavier oil like 10 wt. I run 12 wt. in my 66, and it feels great. Also, I wouldn't fill the fork based on oil volumes, but I'd call up Zoke, and ask them what level below the top caps you need to fill it to. That way you don't run the risk of over filling due to residual oil being left in the legs.
 

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El Chingon said:
Hey Rick, a guy your size should be running a little heavier oil like 10 wt. I run 12 wt. in my 66, and it feels great. Also, I wouldn't fill the fork based on oil volumes, but I'd call up Zoke, and ask them what level below the top caps you need to fill it to. That way you don't run the risk of over filling due to residual oil being left in the legs.
....I agree with EC on the oil weight. I replaced the oil in mine with 10wt & it helped out alot. However, regarding oil volumes....this is not critical because the damper is closed. As long as you have enough in the ETA side for it to work properly & the fork still maintains full travel, it is fine. Oil volume is what tech recommends these days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The fork feels right after I changed the oil the second time with the Golden Spectro stuff, plus I liked the feel of the fork with the stock oil so I think the 7.5wt is fine for me. It's this clunky noise at top out or the top of the stroke thats bugging me.
 

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rroeder said:
The fork feels right after I changed the oil the second time with the Golden Spectro stuff, plus I liked the feel of the fork with the stock oil so I think the 7.5wt is fine for me. It's this clunky noise at top out or the top of the stroke thats bugging me.
....X-Post from Turner thread:

...the knocking sound is air in the TST cart. Where did you get the proper method for bleeding/ refilling the cart? There are several crucial steps in the process that must be followed exactly.
 

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rroeder said:
JNC- here's what I used to change the oil in the TST cart, it locks out and seems to work fine but I think your right about the clunking noise coming from the TST cart.

http://www.windwave.co.uk/documents/techinfo/tst%20bleed.pdf

I used the 160mm measurement, should I compress the rod more to get more oil into the bladder before refilling it??
...to test for air:
-set the TST to lockout
-with the fork fully extended, there should be no movement before the fork locks out
-if the fork compresses a bit before it "catches" & locks out, you have air
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
jncarpenter said:
...to test for air:
-set the TST to lockout
-with the fork fully extended, there should be no movement before the fork locks out
-if the fork compresses a bit before it "catches" & locks out, you have air
Yup, I have air then cause it is moving just a tad before locking out. I'm pretty sure I'm getting all the air out during refill but maybe some air is getting trapped in the bladder, not sure how to prevent that or get it out before refill??
 

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"El Whatever"
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rroeder said:
Yup, I have air then cause it is moving just a tad before locking out. I'm pretty sure I'm getting all the air out during refill but maybe some air is getting trapped in the bladder, not sure how to prevent that or get it out before refill??
It'd be cool if Zoke would sell a different TST cap with a bleed port and some oil injection port at the bottom. It'd be easier than the silly method of the rubber band. It'd be like bleeding a brake.

As the oil can be kept clean, you would simply bleed the TST each now and then and voila! No more tesing with it. It could be even made with the cartridge installed.

Someone mentioned Zoke uses a heat gun or something in the process, but I don't know what for.
 

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Warp said:
It'd be cool if Zoke would sell a different TST cap with a bleed port and some oil injection port at the bottom. It'd be easier than the silly method of the rubber band. It'd be like bleeding a brake.

As the oil can be kept clean, you would simply bleed the TST each now and then and voila! No more tesing with it. It could be even made with the cartridge installed.

Someone mentioned Zoke uses a heat gun or something in the process, but I don't know what for.
...no heat gun is used. That is the dopio cart (heat gun used to break the thread lock). It's really not that difficult a process once you've done it a time or two.

RR: there shouldn't be any air available to get into the bladder if you take your time during the filling process. Cycle the rod constantly & pour a bit of fluid & wait a few seconds...continue to pour a little more, etc. Take your time while filling it & keep cycling the damper. Also wait a minute before you close it up the first time to allow any bubbles a chance to work their way out.
 

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"El Whatever"
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jncarpenter said:
...no heat gun is used. That is the dopio cart (heat gun used to break the thread lock). It's really not that difficult a process once you've done it a time or two.
Cool, thanks Jn!
I freaked out seriously when I read about the heat gun!
 

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I don't do PC
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Got it done, AGAIN, was careful to cycle the rod a bunch to get the air out and filled it up slowly, no way any air was in there, did the bladder step, then filled it to the top till it overflowed a tad and carefully installed the CA so no air snuck in. Checked to make sure the rod didn't move after locking it out and put it back together.

The fork is locking out , BUT, if I lean over the front end and compress real hard the fork will move around an 1/8". Pretty sure it was moving around the same amount before so maybe I didn't get it?? The fork would also make the clunking noise if I bounced the front end on the ground and made it compress slightly, it doesn't seem to be doing it now.

Guess I need to wait till I ride it again to see, not sure how any air could of gotten in there. Maybe there's a problem with the cart or bladder?
 

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kneecap
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I watched Ronney bleed the bladder on my marathon. He used a heat gun on the bladder to assist in removing all possible air from the oil. After seeing the process he went through, even adding a shim under the cartridge cap, I'll probably pass on doing it myself.
I think the charge is somewhere around $10.00 for that service if the damper cartridge is out of the fork, no brainer for me. Course, I'm fortunate to live in the same comunity as the business......
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
kneecap said:
I watched Ronney bleed the bladder on my marathon. He used a heat gun on the bladder to assist in removing all possible air from the oil. After seeing the process he went through, even adding a shim under the cartridge cap, I'll probably pass on doing it myself.
I think the charge is somewhere around $10.00 for that service if the damper cartridge is out of the fork, no brainer for me. Course, I'm fortunate to live in the same comunity as the business......
I hear ya, damn thing is finicky if I haven't gotten it in 3 trys! Hoping I got it this time but I have my doubts, if not I will be sending it in to have it done. Pretty sure I did not leave any air in the cart but my concern is that there is air trapped between the bladder and cart BEFORE I start refilling it, unless all the air is removed from the bladder when the rod is fully extended before you open it up. Seems like air could easily get in the bladder thru the port holes when the cart is opened and emptied.
 
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