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Discussion Starter #1
giant has a new freeride bike coming out called the maestro. does anyone have any pictures or information on it?
 

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sure its a VPP and not another type of 4 bar? because they were experimenting with a fulcrum type suspension system a few years ago to replace the ATX but it never materialised.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am nearly positive its a vpp. I got a post card from giant with part of the frames blueprint on it. on the front the card read ad card 1 of 3 so I guess 2 more are coming. If I can find a scanner I will try to post the picture.
 

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wgcviii said:
I am nearly positive its a vpp. I got a post card from giant with part of the frames blueprint on it. on the front the card read ad card 1 of 3 so I guess 2 more are coming. If I can find a scanner I will try to post the picture.
Postcard? Really. Why would they send you a postcard? Are you in the U.S.A.?
 

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wgcviii said:
I am nearly positive its a vpp. I got a post card from giant with part of the frames blueprint on it. on the front the card read ad card 1 of 3 so I guess 2 more are coming. If I can find a scanner I will try to post the picture.
im with zedro on this one. santa cruz is pretty hardcore about limiting their VPP stuff to only them and Intense. in a recent issue of Dirt, the founder of Santa Cruz (i forget his name) specificly says that he plans on keeping it to only Cruz and Intense
 

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zerossix said:
im with zedro on this one. santa cruz is pretty hardcore about limiting their VPP stuff to only them and Intense. in a recent issue of Dirt, the founder of Santa Cruz (i forget his name) specificly says that he plans on keeping it to only Cruz and Intense
but, its possible the VPP patent only applies to the US (like the FSR/Horst), which would mean if they did make a VPP bike, it'll be everywhere but the US. Giant was going to do this when the NRS design didnt have licensing agreements with Specialized...they simply were going to avoid the US market and continue producing the 1999 DS (ATX970/990) models for the us market
 

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oooooo...

that sounds like a law suit waiting to happen...where all gunna have to see about that one...i sure will be looking forward to it if it really is 8" and a VPP design...are they changing there current DH models design aswell... :confused:
 

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BJ- said:
oooooo...

that sounds like a law suit waiting to happen...where all gunna have to see about that one...i sure will be looking forward to it if it really is 8" and a VPP design...are they changing there current DH models design aswell... :confused:
Giant could crush SC...but they arent so stupid as to break any laws anyways. It is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) bike companies in the world. The US market, while a good sized segment, isnt the end all for them.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am a dealer in the US and the card said they are going to debut it at interbike this year
 

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I'm pretty sure the VPP patent only applies to the wheel path of the bike. However, you could make a bike that looked a lot like the VPP, but had a different wheel path and thus avoided the patent. It would still be a virtual pivot point, but not the same as the one Santa Cruz and Intense use.
 

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Scott....isnt that kinda like what the IH DW link did?
 

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DJrider04 said:
Scott....isnt that kinda like what the IH DW link did?
not really, the linkage configuration is very different and has applied for its own patents.

as for 'just making new linkage designs', its not that simple. There are so many constraints on a bicycle, both physical and performance, that it really limits what you can do.

i think the US patent system is rediculous in granting these. Instead of promoting innovation, its actually stiffling progress since no ones allowed to refine the systems. The consumer is basically stuck with what these companies think is best, and they can rest on their laurels through marketing.

Look at the FSR/Horst...Specialized has basically done nothing with the basic outlay of the design, exept recently for the Demo which is still of limited appeal. Then look at the innovative approaches both Knolly and Devinci have done with it to get full seattubes and different systems. Both arent gonna be distributed in the US because they dont have licenses to sell an essentially different bike (well, Knolly might not be big enough to warrant that anyways).

Imagine if someone managed to patent the single pivot at one point....
 

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I'm pretty sure the VPP patent only applies to the wheel path of the bike. However, you could make a bike that looked a lot like the VPP, but had a different wheel path and thus avoided the patent. It would still be a virtual pivot point, but not the same as the one Santa Cruz and Intense use.
it's actually pretty specific, I waded through some it a couple months ago and one of the biggies was "counter-rotating links". They're essential to the VPP concept and if the Giant doesn't have them, it won't perform the same as it'll have a different axle path. Or something like that...
 

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Yeah

The SC patent must have loopholes in it 'cause Marin has a XC FS out there with something similar to the VPP linkage. Plus remember that Crappendale dual link design with a floating pivot?? Kinda Similar...
 
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