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Submitted by
mike
a Cross Country Rider
from calgary
Date Reviewed: May 22, 2002 | | Favoriate Trail: | sulfur springs | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1000.00 | | Strengths: | The most incredible machining I have seen on any bicycle period. | | Weaknesses: | The pivots are the weakest point of this bike and the frame is whippy. | | Similar Products Used: | Mnt Cycle CXS, | | Bike Setup: | XTR, raceface, syncros, manitou, mavic. | | Bottom Line: | I purchased this bike last fall, it's actually a vpp-3. I got it for a reasonable price because all of the bushing were completely wore out. The rest of the bike was in good shape. The bushing problem did not really bother me because I am a machinist by trade and an avid cyclist. I have since replaced 24 of the original bronze bushings with 14 high quality sealed bearings. This involved designing and machining new lower linkages,and minor modifications to the swing arm;without changing any of the original dimensions. I have since completely restored the bike with new powder coat, decals etc. The bearing conversion is working incredibly well, as the back end is tight, quiet and buttery smooth. Any one that claims that this suspension design does not bob is lying. The system is torque sensitive, so it is possible to experience some bobbing when you do did exceed the torque load to lock out the suspension. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but on most climbs the system is truly unique. Any one interested in more details and photos of the conversion I performed please contact me. As a machinist I could truly appreciate the design and workmanship that went into a bike that was ahead of its time. | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Gordon
a Cross Country Rider
from Pioneer, CA USA
Date Reviewed: April 4, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | More than 3 years | | Strengths: | Joy to ride. | | Weaknesses: | I have beat it to death and had no problems. | | Similar Products Used: | I've been riding Mountian Bikes for over 15 years. I've ridin it all. | | Bottom Line: | I have an original (blue sticker) VPP and beat it to death. I'm a 205, 6'3" rider and I love a good hill climb as much as a fast downhill. I've beat my bike up (blew up 2 alps 4's, bent 2 crank sets, and potato chipped 2 rear wheels) yet my frame functions perfectly. My suggestion, clean off the bike after every ride. Bushings and dirt dont mix!!! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jon
a Downhiller
from Los Gatos, Ca
Date Reviewed: April 24, 2001 | | Favoriate Trail: | Karpiel Tahoe, Ca | | Duration Product Used: | 2 Years | | Price Paid: |
$2500.00 | | Purchased At: | Local shop | | Strengths: | Incredible suspension feel 0 pedal bob and reletivly light. | | Weaknesses: | What were they thinking with 1/16" titanium bushings if you use this bike for what it was ment for you are looking at a lot of repair. | | Bike Setup: | VPP DH, Foes f-1 hayes sun ryno on white industries and foes 30mm hub. | | Bottom Line: | Here is the kicker I have talked to reps at Santa Cruz Mtb and there is no hope for us. While they did buy the suspension design they did not buy the problems we all have. The new bike looks f*cking sick if you were lucky enough to see it at Sea Otter Classic this year. 9" of VPP travel what else do you need in life. Any ways there is no hope for the pivots and Santa Cruz Can't help. I guess the only option is to save up and buy the Santa Cruz when it comes out in a year. Buy the way if any one finds a pivot kit and wants to get rid of it for a good amount of doe E-mail the adress above. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
j dt
a Downhiller
from nor Cal
Date Reviewed: March 21, 2001 | | Favoriate Trail: | Downieville | | Duration Product Used: | 2 Years | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Strengths: | no bop pedaling, sleek design, Santa Cruz now owns it!!! | | Weaknesses: | bushing suck @ss, and need replacing too often | | Similar Products Used: | Gt | | Bottom Line: | Interesting news to those who own this frame. check this link. Santa Cruz bought the VPP patent from Outland THANK GOD!!!! VPP Rules!
http://www.mountainbike.com/gear/gear_news/gn_20010320-15688.shtml
Looks like Santa Cruz might make a kit that we all might be able to use now they bought the VPP patent. Lets keep our fingers crossed that we might be able to use this $2000 frame!!! Mine is a great display to look at. | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
M.Yoshida
a Downhiller
from Fukuoka, Japan
Date Reviewed: July 13, 1999 | | Favoriate Trail: |
Igisu | | Duration Product Used: |
1 Year | | Strengths: |
unique design | | Weaknesses: |
very week | | Bike Setup: |
XT-components, Tioga90mmDH-front_shock,
Alps5r, | | Bottom Line: | I have been using this bike(vpp5-dual) for alomost 1 year as DH bike. It crimbs very well so I can use it for xc fun-ride, too.
That's why I like it. After about 6 months of riding DH once a week, pibots were worn out. I replaced shafts with ones made of cro-mori and bushes with ones made of somekind of special plastic(I don't know what they called in English.). Now rear suspenshon moves smoother than before and I am quite shure that the shafts will last much more longer than before because they are
stiffer and those bushes are softer than before. Those bushes might be worn out quickly but they are cheep(about 50cent each). But, I fuound THREE cracks on the head tube recently.... I was alomst going to forget about this bike. Luckily, I found a shop which will replace the head tube with quite reasonable expence. Reading this page told me that there are some people who keep on taking care of this bike even the company doesn't help them. It is nice to hear such a things. If you are interested in sruffs I wrote above, please contact me by Email. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Mark Gerrard
a Cross-Country Rider
from Centreville, VA
Date Reviewed: July 11, 1999 | | Favoriate Trail: |
Porcupine Rim | | Duration Product Used: |
2 Years | | Strengths: |
Awesome efficient design | | Weaknesses: |
No source for parts. Until now. | | Similar Products Used: |
Ellsworth Truth (own both) | | Bike Setup: |
Marzochhi Superfly, Alps 5R | | Bottom Line: | Anyone out there got a great bike, but nowhere to turn for improved spares now the factory is history? Read on.
Outland VP3 & VP5 owners, the recently defunct company has left you out in the cold, for more than one reason.
1. You were sold a wonderful design, however the materials and specifications of some of the components manufactured from those materials was not up to the standards you expected.
2. You are now left with little or no help from the factory with replacement parts to maintain the quality of the machine you expected when this purchase was made.
>
Do not go to your local blacksmith and have this marvelous piece of machinery butchered, there are bushing kits and shafts available that exceed the
quality of the factory originals. If you want to hear more contact me at mgerrard@erols.com | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
rusty
a Weekend Warrior
from ca
Date Reviewed: May 12, 1999 | | Duration Product Used: |
2 Years | | Bottom Line: | Outland Sports is in receivership and going out of business. There is a pereson there now selling bushing kits only, but I don't know for how long. I love my custom '99 DH, and purchased 2 kits. Luckily I have an extra dropout.Good Luck.Rusty | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Frank
a Weekend Warrior
from Vancouver, B.C.
Date Reviewed: March 21, 1999 | | Duration Product Used: |
1 Year | | Strengths: |
Not there frames | | Weaknesses: |
Besides their bike, the company | | Bottom Line: | Warning: If your considering the purchase of an Outland product there are some things you may be interested in knowing. Outland appears to be having some legal problems and are going through the litigation process. They are not returning phone calls made to 1-888-222-8981 or 360-398-2282. I have broken my VPP 5 at the front portion of the virtual pivot points. With the company being in limbo like this indefinitely who knows if my frame or anyone else's will ever be warranted. This also causes major problems in availability of the components that would be required to service the highly specialized rear triangle. Unfortunately for myself and all of the other Outland owner's out there, we may be in serious trouble. I hope that Outland can work out there problems and return back to business very soon. As for myself, I could not wait for this matter to be resolved as the litigation process could take forever. I therefore have ordered a new frame from Turner and hope this never happens again as I did not budget for a new frame so soon.
I was hoping to get at least 3 seasons out of the frame but instead find myself dishing out serious coin to replace it with something comparable. So I hope the readers find this bit of information valuable as it could save you from a major headache not to mention the thousands of dollars you could potentially end up spending. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John
a Weekend Warrior
from Vancouver, Bc
Date Reviewed: March 18, 1999 | | Duration Product Used: |
1 Year | | Bottom Line: | I would like to warn all those considering buying an Outland bike. I have recently learned that the company is involved in some sort of business problems and are now closed for business and the future seems uncertain at best. You may want to consider this as future service and/or warranty might be a problem. Check for yourself they have a toll free number at 1-888-222-8981. Good Luck John. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
CRAIG BLACK
a cross-country rider
from Saratoga, CA, USA
Date Reviewed: January 21, 1999 | | Bottom Line: |
I'm not here to write a review of this product. Sorry! I am looking for imformation on the OUTLAND line of frames. I have searched the web extensively. I can find no website for them. This review page is the only info I have found so far. It is interesting to see the love/hate relationships this product seems to inspire amongst its users. I would like to see some reviews on this bike from some avarage users, people who aren't 200+ pound downhill crunchers or weekend warrior novices, people with at least a few years experiance on full suspension. I myself ride almost every day. Though I do not race at this time, I consider myself an experianced rider with many years of mtb and bmx behind me. My riding preferance is cross contry, specializing in technical singletrack. I would greatly appricate any info, or website addresses I could go to for info, on this product.Thanks, Craig Black | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
David Brady
a downhiller
from Livermore, CA
Date Reviewed: September 21, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I have riden an Outland since they first came out. Being a 200 lb d/h racer my parts get rideen hard. My outland has never missed a beat. If you have never riden one, you are missing out!! You can ride over stuff that would normally put you on your head. The susp. works under power and braking, NO POGO!!! I can also climb better with my Outland than most can with a hardtail. Lopes and Donavan rode these frames and won championships for a reason, they rule ! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Paul
a racer
from NY
Date Reviewed: September 13, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I am the friend of Chris' who also broke a Dual front triangle, the first time the seattube snapped 1 above the shock mount and the top and down tubes craked after 6 months. The second frame, which happily came pre-dented (they said just be happy we waranteed it), snapped the top tube right behind the headset like Chris' .To make a couple of things clear I weigh 200 lbs + or - 5 lbs so I have some winter training to do to race clydsdale. Also both Chris and I were using Marzocchi Z1 forks. After getting the run around for a week and a half from Outland warranty they have now told me that they have determined I used a double crown fork so they won't warranty my frame. Interesting. As a shop service manager with ten years of experience I found their customer service to be well below the industry standard. At this point my review is love the ride, no pivot problems even during a East Coast winter. I only ride my Bontrager Ti Lite when this is broken.Unfortunately that is to often. Growing to hate the company. Buyer Beware!I would recommend buying the DH 5 or DH6 for aggressive riders CC, DH, or Freeride. And when your friends raz you about the weight kill them on the clmbs.
| Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jon Kessler
a downhiller
from Millbrook, NY
Date Reviewed: September 10, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I started out with a VPP5 Dual and I broke it while coming off of a 10ft drop in onto the front end. The fork I had which was a Rock Shox Judy DH was fine but the frame was bent in two. I sent it back and got a new one. This time I had to pay an extra $400 and got a VPP5 DH. I swapped the rear shock with a RS Super Deluxe and put a ZZYZX up front. Now the bike is sweet. I havent had any problems. The new shock in the rear, and a plusher fork up front made this bike a much better ride and a good DH racer. The pivots, ehh, they do get some friction but the way it works helps ease the pain. The way the pivots move prevents the distance from the BB to the axle stay the same. Overall the bike is cool but it takes a while and a lot of money to get the bike worthy of being an experts race bike.
--Tip: Get the DH not the Dual because you will break the Dual. If you don't like the weight, stop b!tching or look somewhere else. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
chris
a racer
from New York City
Date Reviewed: August 26, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
This is a great all-around bike, with some major flaws. I race XC, and ride downhill for fun. I also know that it (the VPP5 DH, NOT the DUAL) handles 6 foot drop-offs very well for a linkage bike, as most linkage bikes run through their travel too quickly, and the Outland does not.However, the VPP5 Dual (Dual is supposed to mean DH & XC) front triangle is a complete piece of garbage. I broke mine at the top tube just behind the steerer tube, and my friend Paul broke two in two months - and we were both just riding XC at the time. Granted, Paul is not exactly a lean fellow, but he was an expert racer for a few years and he knows how to ride.Here is the problem with Outland: The VPP5 dual is a weak front triangle (The Easton Elite tubing Outland uses would work well if they knew how to make triangles) and if you want the DH, which I was forced to buy in order to handle the rigors of true downhill riding and also everyday riding, you have to pay an additional $400 (these frames are not cheap to begin with).By the way, Outland also takes forever to get you your new frame if you break it. My advice: if you are looking for an efficient rear end bike, buy a TREK Y (Just kidding).Although I like this bike, and I do all my DH & XC riding on it (except for xc racing - it is too much of a pig @ 35lbs and getting fatter), I would stay away from it simply because the DH models only put out 5 (the vpp6 only puts out 5 also); Buy an M1 or a Thick or a Brooklyn Machine Works. Do not buy the Dual or XC. If you actually ride it you will likely break it.0 chiles for Outland's Customer Service
4 chiles for how well it handles drop-offs
5 chiles for pedaling efficiency (Even some of the best DH courses have straight-aways where you need to pedal)
0 chiles for the garbage Dual triangles
1 chile for the free jersey Outland gave me for screwing up my order
5 chiles for the quality of the rear end CNC craftsmanshipOverall, 3 chiles.
| | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Eva Clark
a weekend warrior
from Hawaii
Date Reviewed: August 23, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I have a Brigstone MB2 and thought it was a very good bike till my boyfriend got his Outland. After seeing the difference in his speed and climbing ability I wanted to try it. I'm too small for his bike, but I realy wanted to try it so he put the seat down and gave me a brick to stand on and away I went. It was scary because I could not put my feet on the ground, but after he let some air out of the shock I feel in love with this bike. I tried some other full suspension bikes, but going uphill was a nightmare compared to my MB2. The Outland goes uphill without making me tired, like other full suspension bikes.
Aloha, Eva Clark | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
No Whiners
a
from Whinersville
Date Reviewed: August 19, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
This frame rules! If all you have to do is b$tch about it, then sell it! You people shouldn't own such a complex bike. All I hear is b$tch and moan about people buying frames they hate. Frames like this do require a lot of maintenance. Go buy a rigid frame and shut the hell up!
Cheese Boy | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Phil Smith
a cross-country rider
from Washington, Il U.S.A.
Date Reviewed: August 12, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
OK here it is. This is one of the best riding frames ive been on, it climbs nice and decends well. However; I was very disappointed in the pivots. They are cheap brass bushings coated with a teflon film and they wear out TOO fast. My bushings lasted 6 months for the first set. Then the chainrings start to rub on climbs and during heavy acceleration. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John Hendry
a cross-country rider
from Hawaii
Date Reviewed: August 12, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I really like this bike, when new the pivots were just fine. I spent alot of time with the shock off and played with it studying the design. There is some resistance, but it's very minimal. Riding uphill on the street(smooth surface)I have noticed quite a bit of movement in the forward cam, so it's not affecting the ability of the rear end to move. There is one person (from another company?)that has tried to say that the reason it does not biopace is because the pivot points are just too stiff to allow biopacing. This statement is rediculous, and it makes me wonder if this person really has an Outland VPP5. If you push on a pedal the Outland will not compress due to the force being applied to the pedal, but will compress from an increase in weight as you jump on it trying to make the pedal compress the rear shock. This is why the Outland does not biopace. It uses a completely different linkage system than any other bike on the market. To say that it does not biopace due to the pivots being too tight shows a complete lack of understanding of the principals of basic science. I find it difficult to beleive that someone who has the brains to come up with the cash to build a $4,000 bike, (not that that is the cost of an Outland well equipped, although you could spend that much if you wanted to)could believe this nonsense. I have warn out one rear tire offroad and my pivots are still not warn. I use White Lighting chain lube on the pivots and find it to funtion much as it does on a chain and keeps the pivots clean...so far. For heavy mud use some waterproof grease applyed around the pivots and a sock made of any number of materials will keep them clean with min weight added.
I shortened my chain and as long as I shift properly I have no problems with the swing arm hanging low. I use the same size XT rear derailer as came on the Marin Titainium, as that's where many parts came from.
As with all rear susp bikes, you can decrease the travel with a shorter shock. I'm sure Outland realizes this. But just for the heck of it I just checked my bike and.....a full 5 in with the Alps4 w/5upgrade. I'd have to say that I really wonder about that other poster who claims to have an Outland...and if they do...with reasoning like...the reason it doesn't biopace is because the pivots are too tight I wouldn't pay much attention to it. The Outland is awsome. Show me one person who really owns one...real name please...and says they don't think it's the best all around full suspention bike out there, and I'll show you 10 (at least) who do. Any manufacturer can post here...real names please!John Hendry
N Shore of Oahu, Hawaii | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
LR
a weekend warrior
from CA
Date Reviewed: August 12, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I have been riding this bike for over a year and it is the most frustrating bike that I have ever owned. It is so close to great that you can taste it but it has several flaws that keep it from realizing its potential.First, the pivots are so tight when new and there is so much internal friction in the 8 pivot points that its low amplitude/high frequency response is non-existant. It does well on mid and large hits. Also, it takes a mid-sized impact to get the forward cam off of its resting position and moving down to react. This is part of why it feels alittle like a hardtail and why it resists biopacing so well. It's just plain stiff.Second, when the pivots do get worn enough for the suspension to actually allow some high fequency movement, they are all but shot and are ready to be replaced. Pivot replacement is not for the faint of heart.Third, the bike,in stock form,is not a 5 travel bike. The rear suspension has a 2.35/1 leverage ratio at the shock. The Alps 4R shock has a 2 stroke so the total travel is 4.7, not 5. The Rock Shox Super Deluxe shock has a 1.75 sroke for a 4 3/8 travel. The RS as a way better feel and much lower damping than the Alps but the travel loss is sad. I have finally found a Stratos Helix Pro with a 2 1/4 stroke that is pretty good and the bike is at last putting out around 5. Yet, due to the suspensions reticence to start moving, it is hardly plush.Forth, the pivot sealing system is very poor. Do not ride this bike in mud on a regular basis if you are not prepaired for frequent pivot replacement. Fifth, the lower swingarm hangs into the chain line when in the little ring on even a 24 tooth. To get clearance you must run a long cage rear derailleur. This is pretty funky. These guys brag about their CAD design - they should have used it. I suspect that this was designed as a downhill bike first, and a triple chainring was added as a later afterthought. I love grinding noises on a four thousand dollar bike. I have added a nylon runner under the swingarm to minimize the crunch when in granny gear mode.I have had some great moments on this bike, but all and all it has been an expensive disappointment. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John HendrY
a cross-country rider
from Sunset Beach Hawaii
Date Reviewed: July 31, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I love this bike. I have a Z1 on the front, and Fox upgraded my shock to an Alps 5...big difference from the 4, feels much more like a spring at half the weight...the frame came with a spring RS but I had Bill change it for weight, plus the frame was designed for an air shock. My riding style is not pro, but many of my friends that I ride with are,I get quite a kick at keeping up with them going uphill. They kill me going downhill, but I have no interest in trying to keep up with them. I weigh over 200lbs and...well, did you see the vidio where a guy is racing downhill and his rear wheel just folds up and he goes down real hard? He didn't hit anything...he just pushed the wheel past its limit. I figure I outweigh that guy by 20 lbs at least.I know I can break the wheels, so intill I get some (heavy)downhill wheels on it, I'm taken it easy. My thing is XC...I love hills...so the wheels I have are fine for now. This bike climbs much better than my last bike, a 1989 Bridgstone MB1. That was a great bike too. As far as hardtail frames go, the MB1 frame for a guy my size was great. It wasn't till the Outland came around that I wanted a new bike. I could climb great on the MB1, but the outland KILLS IT! With suspension I can go over roots and rocks that stopped me on the MB1. The rear end on the Outland gives me way more traction going uphill than the MB1. I'm making it up stuff that was a nogo before. What more can I say...the bike goes uphill better than an MB1. For downhill there are better bikes...but I wouldn't want to ride them uphill. For an all around off road bike...this is the one! There were problems with the fist ones made (some) with the skinny BB pivot mount, and the frame should be painted so it doen't oxidize, the bushing are small and will need to be replaced yearly for the average hard rider. If you are very, very, fast,like Alaska, you will break it sooner or later if you weigh over 175 lbs. But it will not break it in the same spot. The bike is as strong as the Easten alluminum tubing. They could make it out of heavyer tubing...but then you'd cry about the weight. If you are that fast you will break anything anyway....its a bike...not a motorcycle. You wouldn't want to peddle a motorcycle....now would you? I really liked the Santa Cruze line,(my friends broke them too) but the Outland peddles much better. I built Bill Barnfieds IBM computer system that runs Raging Ile Sports on the N. Shore...and I built Wallys IBM system that runs The Bikefactory in Honolulu....I can have any bike I want. All I have to do is put a virus in their system and bring em to their knees! How much for that King hub set? (joke..really...I don't know where it came from) I want another Outland. One is not enough...5 peppers for sure. The VVP on the Outland is the best design yet. Oh yea...I have the VVP 5...not the downhill model. I love it!
John ^^ | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
JD
a downhiller
from SANTA CRUZ HILLS, CA
Date Reviewed: June 29, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I must say this is an excellent frame. I have a DH VPP5 with a Z-1 in the front. I have just bought a pair of Monster-T's to put on.However, the only downfall is the rear shock. Good news though, Zoke is coming out with a awesome new rear shock Boss VR50 that should be able to fit on this for the full Zoke experience. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
ron
a cross-country rider
from aliso viejo,CA
Date Reviewed: June 5, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I've owned my Outland VPP5 for a couple of months now and still can't believe how great it is. I got it for about a third of the retail price as a frame. I added some parts off my hardtail and added a few others like a Marzocchi Z-1 BAM, XTR deraillers, riser bars etc. My climbing has never been so good (I weigh 235 and dropping) and the downhills have never been so smooth and fast. This bike is absolutely incredible for ALL kinds of riding. I would recommend everyone to at least take one out for a ride if you get the chance, you will find yourself looking for one for yourself. There is nothing better!!! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Tom Montana
a weekend warrior
from Park City, CO
Date Reviewed: June 3, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
The VPP design is the best I have ever seen or riden. I craive the way it handles and climbs. I have never experienced pedal induced bobbing like I have with most other FS bikes. I have two close friends who are also MTB enthusiasts, and expert level racers; and they tell everyone they talk to on the trails about thier OUTLAND bikes. My only suggestion is to take care of it, and it will last you a long time of OUTRAGOUS riding. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John Collins
a weekend warrior
from Texas
Date Reviewed: May 19, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
The best full suspension I've ever ridden, and I managed a shop until last year(which did not sell Outland). It makes a great cross-country or downhill racer because the rear suspension is fully active but it doesn't bob when pedaling. I've met one or two people who had problems with the bushings but, as with many full suspension, bushings do take a little bit of care, but a very minimal amount. All you have to do is tighten them twive a month and spray some tri-flow in and you're fine. GREAT BIKE!! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Fernando Rodriguez
a cross-country rider
from Bogota,Colombia
Date Reviewed: May 6, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I´ve had my VPP5 for over a year, I really like its geometry specially for cross country, for an active suspencion it doesn´t loose much energy transfer on the climbs and it is a sweet dream on the technical stuff. Sadly manteniance is another story I´ve had to send it back to the factory because of a crack on the bottom bracket linkage pivot and they fixed with a very poor paint job but what could I do the frame was back in Colombia, since then I´ve been replacing constantly bushings, teflon washers, and the last one the pivots are worn out and really I ride about 3 to 4 times a week, and the problem is that if you go out for a long ride and the frame fails well I don´t think It is a dependable frame. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Roß
a cross-country rider
from Plainsboro, NJ
Date Reviewed: March 25, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
The VPP is without a doubt the best full-suspension frame I have ever ridden. Who wouldn't want a bike that has fully active suspension while sitting, standing, braking, etc, but still does not biopace AT ALL, even when pounding in the little ring?The corrosion problem noted below is not really corrosion, it's oxidization. Any untreated aluminum frame or part will oxidize if not cared for properly. I use Mother's Aluminum Polish and coat it with a good car wax when the polishing is done. The bike looks like it's chrome-plated when I'm done.The only problem with using this bike as a cross-country ride is finding an appropriate fork. With 5 of rear travel, the frame overwhelms most forks. I have a Z1 BAM on mine, and the fork bobs too much for serious XC riding. But, you can't blame the frame for that. I give this one 5 flaming dog turds for being the best FS frame out there, bar none. Name one other bike with 5 of rear travel that doesn't bounce when pedaled uphill? | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Chris Dobrick
a weekend warrior
from Seattle, WA
Date Reviewed: February 9, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
As far as this bike is concerned I'm a weekend warrior, but I'm also a Sport, and Cat 4 racer. But I do have plans to race DH this season on my outland. It is a phenomenal bike. I have it set up 5 in front and rear so its not much for climbing. But for the tank it is it climbs pretty well. A buddy I work with has been free-riding on one (mated with a judy XL) for about a year and has no major complaints. One complaint we both have is the placement of the toptube. It has almost no slope to it, making it a ball-buster if I'm not carefull (luckly I have long legs). My friend has opted to trade in the main triangle for the DH model which has a toptube with more drop to it ending just above the seattube pivot. Why they didn't address this in the begining is beyond me. I also question the usefullness of the sub-down tube bottle mounts. It's a water-logged, corroded frame waiting to happen if you don't plug them up. But it rides like no other. Picking a line is a thing of the past to me. There is no noticeable pedal induced feedback. There is little if any bobbing action when climbing in/out of the saddle. I would recommend the DH model to anyone buying it though. It's a bit heavier, and a bit pricier, but the clearence is well worth it. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jim Romero
a weekend warrior
from Monterey, CA
Date Reviewed: January 28, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I am convinced that this is the best FS bike you can buy. I have a VPP5 with a Z-1 BAM in the front so it is well balanced (the Fox Alps 4 shock and my Z-1 BAM forks are very tunable so I have it set up just right). I ride mostly cross country but also like high speed downhills. The rear suspension is the only suspension I have come across which truly isolates the suspension action from pedaling or braking forces while also remaining active. So, the bike is very plush but without paying any penalty in efficiency. My fork bobs a little when hammering out of the saddle but I chose to leave it that way (could easily tune them for less bobbing but it doesn't bother me and my time has been tight lately). I was able to have my bike powedercoated for $50 before I built it up so I don't have the corrosion problem (which I think only happens if you return from a wet ride and just let it sit). Anyway, I highly recommend this bike if you can afford it. It is the ultimate all around bike. Excellent for XC or DH. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Droffats Remark
a cross-country rider
from Milwaukee, WI
Date Reviewed: January 25, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
The bike's suspension is superior to any I have riden. It simply bio-paces less than any other bike out there that is still fully active. However, the ball-burnished frames are not ball-burnished. They are not anodized. They corode. Yes, AL does corrode and mine was in such bad shape after a month I forced the dealer to take it back. Thankfully, he did refund me. The bike actually smelled like mildew. It was bizare. Outland admitted the bike isn't anodized and corodes. They replaced the dealer's bike with a painted frameset and said they have done this for others. They changed the seatpost diameter and the dealer had to suck up the cost of a new Syncros hardcore for me. Also, the bike came with the cable stop mounts on backwords and it took three months to get to the dealer.Again, the bike rides the best, the geometry is perfect for me. I ride almost exclusively mild hills and cross-country and it flies. But until they get their production/customer service issues worked out I wouldn't recomend one. If you want to take a gamble with a so-so company... | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
andy friesen
a cross-country rider
from redding, ca
Date Reviewed: January 24, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
i have been riding the outland vpp frame for about a year. I ride mostly technical singletrack, a little DH, and have done XC touring. the outland really shines at singletrack speeds, though I have noticiced that the rear triangle is a bit whippy. Handling is spot-on, however, and the action of the fox alps 4 is super plush. In fact, the suspension action is one of the smoothest that I have felt. Compare it to the 98 LTS. How the bike climbs differs greatly from any other FS bike I have ridden. Step on the pedals and the bike jumps it really feels like a hardtail, yet the suspension continues to work while standing, seated, pedaling, coasting, you name it. Travel stops at five inches, though I have yet to bottom it out. I often find myself wishing for a bit more than 75mm up front. Frame weight is about 6.9 lbs for a 20 frame. | | Overall Rating: |
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