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Submitted by
geraldo henrickson
a Weekend Warrior
from Boring, OR
Date Reviewed: February 25, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | any singletrack | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$100.00 | | Purchased At: | eBay | | Strengths: | Interesting design | | Weaknesses: | The pins and bushings for the pivot points. | | Similar Products Used: | nothing even close | | Bike Setup: | cane creek shock ad-10 | | Bottom Line: | I bought this frame cracked, knowing full well its supposed design flaws, unavailability of parts and that is was cracked due to miscalculations on shock length leading to an "interference" fit (negative amount of clearance) between the swingarm and frame. No problem I cannot overcome.
I hear extreme amounts of pithy and beligerent comments (see below) but would like to say that in the 70's, such things as breakage of frames and compoments was common and that was when we rarely left the ground.This is the price of going fast. No one can guarantee (even implied) that your new purcahses will not break, that there company will be around in 2 years to help nor can you expect great service from those who do...the level of service everywhere is diminishing fast.
Except...CANE CREEK, who is helping me rejuvenate this frame with a reworked AD-10. If you have pins (any material)or bushings (any material) for an early VPP frame, lemme know!
This frame is great for those of us with low bucks and who are not world class yet still want full suspension!!! | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jon Gieck
a Cross Country Rider
from Chicago
Date Reviewed: May 7, 2001 | | Favorite Trail: | Palos | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$450.00 | | Purchased At: | internet | | Strengths: | Minimal suspension feedback! Climbing grip is great and the suspension is active. | | Weaknesses: | Difficulty finding parts and skilled technicians. Pivot wear may cause some problems. | | Similar Products Used: | Owned: Kona Hardtail Schwinn Sweetspot/Manitou FS | | Bike Setup: | Fox air shock/King hubs on velocity (R) 517 (F)/Raceface crank/ ESP 9.0/Altek alum levs/Arch supremes/Monkeylite riser/Frogs/Ti stem/Ti XTR Cass/ | | Bottom Line: | (THE FOLLOWING IS TOO LONG)
When I bought this frame from some dude in N.C. he claimed there was no slop in the pivots. I got it and there was mucho action! He thought it was a design flaw. The fix was to go to Straight Up Cyclery and have Jeff get newly machined pins and an old in-stock bushing kit. It cost ~$150 to get it running.
The story here is that you have to look into replacement parts if you want this excellent design. I reckon the bushings will wear at some point, but it appears that the TI pins were a contributing factor to the slop in this design. I've examined some with grooves and understand that slop is a cumulative concept.
The bike climbs like a hardtail and bombs like a downhill rig. I firmly believe this is the best concept for a frame but that the application was precipitously released. No pivot problems, no problem.
Dudes on the trial boo-hoo the Outland, but they fail to realize that Santa Cruz and Intense both jumped on the patent after it was available.
If you can explore pivot/bushing supplies, this is the best rig for the present and future. Take a TI pin and get some clones made of steel. I know TI is supposed to be extra hard and all that, but Young's Modulus and metal "exfoliation" are entirely different. Hardened steel pins are the way to go, thus far. Get ahold of Castro Valley Cycles in CA. for more bushings. If the pivot points are true (not deformed) this is the best frame.
Careful of people offering a fix. I've heard two stories of people getting ripped by folks claiming to solve pivot problems. Other owners have been very supportive about getting parts/finding solutions.
If you can afford some time to find parts or can test the frame/trust the seller, this is a great ride. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Motoharu
a Downhiller
from Iizuka, Japan
Date Reviewed: January 22, 2001 | | Favorite Trail: | Tumalo falles, Oregon | | Duration Product Used: | 2 Years | | Price Paid: |
$1000.00 | | Strengths: | rare design. | | Weaknesses: | Weakness of the frame. | | Similar Products Used: | XCR, DH-race, | | Bike Setup: | Bomber z1 '97, XT and LX, Azonic DH bar, Fox Vanilla, IGUS bushings, cro-mo pins. | | Bottom Line: | Good to see that what I wrote about two years ago is still on the web like this (below). I was wating for somebody to write behind me. Finally a very devout outlander posted a review (below) so I decided to write again to be at the top of this page. Hope somebody who loves Outy post another one soon. This time I will write about the bushing I mentioned before. Before introducing the product id and stuff, I have to tell you that, those bushings are very dangerous...
It can cause serious injury to your frame. I will write about this later. The product id of bushings.
There are two types:
1: WFM-0810-05
2: WFM-0810-07
Both of them are made of yellow plastic. 1 is almost the same shape asoriginal bushing. 2 is 2mm longer than 1 along pivot pin. You can replace some of bushings with this longer one. Longer one can make more area touching between frame and pins, you know what I want to say.
I saw a picture of shopping cart at the web page of IGUS. May be you can purchase bushings on the net.
By the way, Those pins I mentioned are not sold any more.
But for usual case, replacing bushings will do it. Now about the danger. I used those bushings for a half year and they made my bushing holes bigger. That is to say, those bushings turned with pins when the suspention moved and wore those bushing holes. It is very serious. Now my bushings are glued with epoxy resin to my frame. I am using this frame like this for about a year and there is no probrem by now expect squeak noise from these bushings.
1 chili for value rating because of the time I spent to make it work nomally. And 4 chilis for overall because of what I learned through this bike and because any way it is working and it has 2001 specification which suits for north shore kind of riding (good pedaling and good shocks). | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Adrian Ho
a Cross Country Rider
from Singapore
Date Reviewed: January 9, 2001 | | Duration Product Used: | 2 Years | | Price Paid: |
$1000.00 | | Purchased At: | Singapore | | Strengths: | Virtually no bob when i climb steep hills or when on-road and sprinting. Fox Alps is light and works well, soaks up bumps when correct PSI is set. | | Weaknesses: | Paintwork, chips too easily. I once knock lightly on the frameset with my bike lock and a small piece of the paint work came off. Should at least powder oat 3-4 layers instead of the suspected 2 layers. Hard to get spares | | Similar Products Used: | Haro Extreme, GT-LTS | | Bike Setup: | Marzocchi Z1 BAM 5.1", RaceFace NEXT crankset, XTR V-brakes, shifters, deraileur, REAL brake lever, Spinergy SPOX wheelset, Thomson seatpost, Selle Italia saddle, K2 MAG pedals & ODi grips. | | Bottom Line: | Some people complain that this bike is brittle coz it breaks when they downhill or do drops, but these idiots dun know how to use the correct bike for the correct terrain. I've used this bike for uncountable cross country rides and some heavy terrain, and never experienced any problems till now. Mainly due to the proper servicing that i do on my bikes. U dun buy a hardtail to do DH, neither do you buy a freeride bike to DH. So to those idiots out there with broken frames, serve you bloody rite!! | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
M.Yoshida
a Downhiller
from Fukuoka. Japan
Date Reviewed: November 4, 1999 | | Favorite Trail: |
Igisu | | Duration Product Used: |
1 Year | | Strengths: |
unique design | | Weaknesses: |
it is week | | Similar Products Used: |
Cannondale F3000 | | Bike Setup: |
XT-components, Tioga90mmDH-front_shock,
Alps5r, | | Bottom Line: | I have been using this bike(vpp5-dual) for alomost 1 year as DH bike. It crimbs very well so I can
use it for xc fun-ride, too.
That's why I like it. After about 6 months of riding DH once a week, pibots were worn out. I replaced
shafts with ones made of cro-mori and bushes with ones made of somekind of special plastic(I don't
know what they are called ). Now rear suspenshon moves smoother than before and I am
quite shure that the shafts will last much longer than before because they are
stiffer and those bushes are softer than before. Those bushes might be worn out quickly but they are
cheep(about 50cent each). But, I fuound THREE cracks on the head tube recently.... I was alomst
going to forget about this bike. Luckily, I found a shop which will replace the head tube with quite
reasonable expence. Reading this page (http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Frameset/OutlandDesigns_VPP.html) told me that there are some people who keep on taking care of this bike even the
company doesn't help them. It is nice to hear such a things. If you are interested in sruffs I wrote
above, please contact me by Email. | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Cochrame
a Cross-Country Rider
from Elanore Mich.
Date Reviewed: April 5, 1999 | | Duration Product Used: |
1 Year | | Strengths: |
Great climber. Lots of suspension. | | Weaknesses: |
Where do I start?
They should call this bike the VPP {Virtual Problem Point} because it has so many problems! My friend lofted of a drop off and through a rocky trail when on it and two of the pivots came lose and broke off! When we contacted the co. for warrenty they said it was not covered because we went of a one foot drop off! What a RIPP OFF! | | Bottom Line: | The linkage is smoth as long as it doesnt fall apart on yah! I think this bike is a peice of $#!+. It isnt worth the money if the lame @$$e$ who put it together cant warrenty it!
OUTLAND IS A FAKE! thats my opion! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Sebastian
a Weekend Warrior
from Ogden, UT
Date Reviewed: March 16, 1999 | | Favorite Trail: |
too many to list | | Duration Product Used: |
less than 1 month | | Strengths: |
Suspension Travel- 5 inches! Climbs like a hard tail, no bob or biopace. Lightweight. Full XTR bike weighs 26 pound with five inches of factory wheel travel. Descends like a full Down-hill bike. Handles bumps and turns like a motocross bike. | | Weaknesses: |
Retail price is expensive. Manufacturer has changed too many hands so service is hard to find. | | Similar Products Used: |
Most 96-99 Full suspension bikes. Most bikes are weak climber or pigs | | Bottom Line: | If you like climbing as much as you like descending then this is the bike for you. This is the most versatile bike ever made. Try it out on a steep rough climb and you too will be convinced, go back down the rough hill and you will go buy one. | | Overall Rating: |
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