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| 29er-26 | Brakes | Disc Brakes | Frame Materials | Hardtail-Full Suspension | Handlebars | Lights | Lube | Pedals | Rear Shocks | Saddles | Shifter | Shocks | ShocksII | Shorts | Tubeless Tires/Rims | Water Carrier | |
Date: March 25, 2006
stacee edwards a cross-country rider writes:
because they dont get holes n thein
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubed are more adjustable and better feeling.
WINNER: Traditional
Tubeless - low pressure for traction, suspension
WINNER: Tubeless
price for tires and rims
WINNER: Traditional
All tubeless UST are heavy
All traditional can make tubeless
WINNER: Traditional
can run lower pressures
WINNER: Tubeless
Tufo tires are the best! I have never had a flat tire with these tires after 1,500 miles of riding. I am using the Tufo Hi-Composite Carbon.
WINNER: Tubeless
Punctures in tubeless tyres in the winter mud are very difficult to find, especially if too fast. You do not want to be hunting for a hole in the wet and cold. Tubes are much easier in this case, check the casing and put in a new one or use self-sealers.
However, I do find that tubless run better!
WINNER: Tie
Who wants all those maintaince? Tubless Tires are heavier. You still need to put a tube in the tubeless if you get a flat on the trail. there goes your weight saving...
WINNER: Traditional
Tubles are to heavy, just cary around a CO2 inflator and a tube in a pack under your seat, its not that hard
WINNER: Traditional
Tubeless are better. They save weight and you can run them with less air pressure which helps traction a bunch. Definetely tubeless
WINNER: Tubeless
No pinch flats, low pressure
WINNER: Tubeless
weight gane is whant i have i am o/b over wight
WINNER: Tubeless
though tubeless is more expensive than of the traditional tire, tubeless has the better performance...the money you will be spending is worth it..it is less maintenance..
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubes? lets see, I live in SoCal where cactus an� the goat heads thrive. Slime works well for a bit. But after the tires gets three or four in it you can get home but forget the tube. It�s toast. So when you ride 4 or 5 times a week and get unlucky enough to find the goat heads and cactus on those rides, then changing the slime tubes? Well, it gets old quickly especially when the tires are difficult to remove.
I�ve put Stan�s in aboot 2 weeks ago, an� haven�t looked back yet. I pulled four goat heads out after a Sunday ride, then pulled four more out after the Thursday afternoon ride. That alone was enough to sell me since the tire pressure stayed at 33 psi.
So I�ll give that round to tubeless with Stan�s system.
So tubeless again.
The best part is I was able to keep my Sun Rhinolite rims with the WTB 2.4 Mutanoratpor up front and the 2.35 Wierwolf out back. These tires with the Stan�s? I�ve been able to pull off climb that�s I�d never made with the safe 38-40 psi. I can point the Moment downhill and relax as I don�t have to worry aboot pinch flats anymore. Shredded sidewalls are still a real concern but it would the same with tubes.
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubeless are nice because you can change the pressure without worrying about a flat. Tubeless can pop easier on some conditions but Stans no tubes takes care of that. Tube rims and tires are lighter though.
WINNER: Tubeless
Seems to me you really need two sets of rims, one tubed, one tubeless. Make the decision by what type of ride you are doing. Technical, rocky race/ride = tubeless.
Fast, hard packed race/ride = tubed.
WINNER: Tie
UST for training and endurance races.
Standard tire, set up tubeless for xc racing.
Tie.
WINNER: Tie
got a set of latex tubes for commuting (with a stint on the trails). can't complain with those, never had a pblm. got a tubless set for the mountains, two complaints. punctured the rear while crossing a paved area...sharp rock. and a stick jammed into the valve stem and broke it off! would of been sol if I didn't carry a spare tube.
my verdict: i like the ride of the tubeless and the durability of the tubes.
WINNER: Tie
Tim Peters (from below)is a know-it-all who doesn't know much at all. I can understand why some people still run tubes, but to spout off a bunch of bull to make your point is ridiculous. Stick to racing on the flats of Illinois. Those of us who trail-ride for hours on end in the mountains and deserts run Tubeless. Less flats (alot less) and the recomended tire pressure for tubless is a usually a range and the lower end of it does great. By the way Tim, you would have to run your bike tires at 8 psi to get a concave curve out of it so that isn't an issue, and even if it was the terrain will still grab it more than a fully inflated tire. Tim, I'll bet you weigh about 150 or less and race nice hardpack with no true technical sections of any kind- that is why you never pinch-flat or puncture. We pinchflat tubed tires out here with pressures from 40-55psi all the time. By the way, there is no/ or little weight penalty for tubless in the realty of trailriding- those people who still ride tubes have to use thick tubes with gobbs of Slime and the weight ends up being more in most cases (even with an ounce of Stan's in each tire). A note to those who read this: Racers are in their own world, and that is fine, but they don't ride the same way as MOUNTAIN bikers do.
WINNER: Tubeless
tubeless tons of pros almost no cons seals without hasle
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubes help me transfer weight from side to side. I like to ride with a tubeless system using lightweight tubes and sealant. I can pedal really fast when I am in a hurry with the correct wheelset. Tubes on tubeless are the hands-down best!! You will win more races that way if you are there for the start. OK...none of that made sense, but your selection of tubeless tires is limited to crap and also the tubeless rims weigh more...recommendation = standard rims w/ stans.
WINNER: Traditional
tubeless is so much easy, no punchers, so so easyer, just a lil heavey but hey, its worth it, tubes are too much hassel if u get a puncher, traditonal just look stupid and i wont even go there
WINNER: Tubeless
I think it's safe to say that when I fire up my ass with brocolli and refried bean shooters, most women are attracted to me even moreso. Now, I have been into literally blowing out the butt end of my underwear so much that I just quit wearing them.
PS, tubes rule.
WINNER: Traditional
Tubeless with slime or stans (just got stans) = no flats.
Not from thorns, pinch or otherwise.
If you ride where there are thorns/thissle/sharp plant matter you can not compare the two, unless you are running slime tubes and they weigh a metric shitload.
no contest where I ride
WINNER: Tubeless
First of all, where were all you tubeless folks getting flat tires? I get maybe 1 or two a year and it is not from pinch flats, it is from a very large thorn or sidewall cut on sharp rocks. If you run your tires to the correct tire pressure you do not get pinch flats.
Myth, tubeless lets you run lower pressure, nope, you still have to run the recommended tire pressure or you risk damaging the sidewalls. Also, running a tire below the tire pressure minimum actually causes the tire to perform worse, the contact patch will become concave giving you less contact area.
Another problem with the lower tire pressure myth, if you do run under inflated tires, you risk damaging you tubeless rims making them un-tubeless.
Weight and goop, why would you want either?
Also, show me one motocross or cross country racing motorcycle out there running tubeless, they don't, you know why, it isn't worth it.
One, devation, downhill racing is justified running tubeless and that's it. Why, they can run much heavier,wider tires with much more substantial side walls. This allows a higher volume of air, at lower pressure. Look at a Sprint Cars' right rear tire and you will get an idea of high volume low air pressure. However, you still have to run the minimum air pressure or you start to loose contact area.
So tubeless is worth it why?
WINNER: Traditional
I just switched to tubeless. I hear good things from friends. I am excited about no more flats and better control. I run Stans Notubes with Bonty revolt super x tires!
WINNER: Tubeless
TIRES SIZE 24X1.75
WINNER: Tubeless
I've been riding tubless since Stan the Man came out with his notubes system. Tubeless is by far the way to go..lower air pressure means better traction, faster on the trail. Plus you don't have to worry about flats anymore. After the first ride on tubeless tires, I took three thorns on the rear tire (didn't know I had them until two weeks later after cleaning my bike). Stan's system rocks!!!
WINNER: Tubeless
I had one of the first tubless sistems on my cannondale and it sucked thoes tires allways leaked from the sidewalls
so I switched to tubes in UST rims
then I tryed the slime because it was easy to get to and it will work only if you like to have 40lb. tires
now I use stans on reg. tires because there lighter than tubless tires and there a awsome set of light wheels
spend a few more bucks for the stans and stay away from that slime crap
unless you like a heavyweight bike
just my opinion
WINNER: Tie
I have ridden both traditional and tubeless wheels. My vote is for tubeless. Tubeless wheels roll faster, smoother, and you have fewer flats (if set up correctly). As for the faster claim-two riders, same weight, same wheels (Mavic Cross-Max UST), no brake rub on either set of wheels. One wheelset with tubes, the other set fully tubeless. The bike with tubeless wheels would coast as fast as the other bike, with the rider pedaling. Not scientific but at least two of us think it is a fair test and are tubeless beleivers just based on this first fact finding mission. The second reason tubeless is better, smoother ride. No pinch flat worries, and you don't have to run your wheels at 50 psi. The final reason that I think tubeless wheels outperform the traditional setup, no more flats. Forget Stan's there is a cheaper alternative. I put slime in my wheels and never even think about airpressure gauges for a month or more. For all you who worry about weight, unless you are 5% body fat or less, thre is more weight to be lost from other parts of the motor on the bike. If that scenario upsets you, or does not apply, the fact that you add a pound to the weight of your bike, but it makes you and your bike go faster-and have fewer flats-no brainer. To be fair the traditional setup has one significant plus-lower cost. That all said if you can, go tubeless.
WINNER: Tubeless
I ride traditional tires on a standard rim. However, I use the maxis rim strips and Stans sealant. There is absolutely no other logical way. I have a wheel set that I have been riding to work through goat heads for the last year. Not once have I bothered to pull them out or deal with a flat. Only thing I could compare it to is solid rubber tires (yuck!). Lighter, faster, cheeper and much better reliability than a tubeless
WINNER: Traditional
I would like to second manu, riding on rims is so much faster, and they corner on the road like there on rails dude!
WINNER: Tubeless
I would choose tubed tires. Because of the hazzle with soap and water, off center tires, the need for co2 cartridges/compressor, the lack of good tires especially studded tires for winter fun.
you can run erto-standard tires on my crossmax xl with a tube or goo'
but it's not a hazzle-free, get-out-and-ride-inspiring experience
The feel of the tubeless is good, better then tubed tires. I like to run the tire at a lower pressure, and when everything works just fine it is beautiful! , but when it does'nt...
The green michelin ust tires rip, hutchinson ust's leaks from the side wall(?)(not enough rubber in the tire).
WINNER: Traditional
Tradoinal, i dont like to patch the tubless, nor the extra weight
WINNER: Traditional
tubed tires!. tried tubeless on a specialized s-works. mavic rims. on the rear i liked the tubeless but on the front, maybe its me and my style of turning, but i had to run the same pressure as a tubed version. otherwise the front tire would "roll" sideways. also, it seemed silly to me to run a heavier tire, then if you had a flat the best fix was to install a tube. then "poof" you have a 900 gram tire until you could remove it and repair correctly (with a tube repair kit?)i'll stay with tubes for now thanks.
WINNER: Traditional
Having ridden almost every good tire over the last 12 years (maybe not that many, but heaps anyway), I was very old school in my thoughts about tubless. The tire weighs up to 250 - 300 gms more than the tubed version of the same tire, and I have had mates who ran tubless, got punctures, put in tubes, then ran them as a tubed tie there after - costing now another 120+ grams for the tube. Waste of time so I thought. But I was wrong. Very wrong.
I recently went tubless for the first time. I was running CrossMax SL with tubes, changed the valve to make it tubless, and put on new Specialized Fast Track 1.90. My Goodness. Better in every way. Why?
1. Running at a lower pressure (30PSI) gives much more grip. Much more. No more pushing the front end on single track that is dry and slightly loamy. Much much more corning confidence.
2. Takes the shock and bump out of a hardtail. Much better when negotiating rocks, technical climbs and much less tiring on a ride more than 1.5 hours.
3. More 'feel' = more confidence.
No punctures at all, pretty good considering I ride almost every day for about 1.5 hours on all sorts of trails.
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubless tires are better. They get many less flats. There are non expensive ways to make traditional tires tubless. There is a home remedy found that can be found at www.nsmb.com to convert tubless tires that works very well. These tubless pups are lighter than traditional and very very cheap (maybe $10).
WINNER: Tubeless
who needs tires. ride the rims.
WINNER: Traditional
i weigh 135 lbs so i don't see any reason to use heavy tubless tires/rims. i use light weight tires & tubes with a scoop of stans IN the tube. i haven't had a flat in 2 years of doing this, and my tire/tube weight is still less than a tubless set-up. i usually run 33-38 psi.
WINNER: Traditional
I changed to Tubeless rims and tires in March of '04. During that time I raced and rode cross country. I did not have a flat until November of '04... no pinch flats and no more trips to buy tubes, etc. On one occasion I did spring a leak, I jumped off the bike and placed my finger on the hole and the stans sealant sealed in right off. The cause of the flat in November was my own fault... I didn't check the sealant and it had dried out. Went back to a traditional set up on my next ride and changed two pinch flats that day. Go with Tubeless wheel and put traditional tire (save wieght) and stans sealant. No worries.
WINNER: Tubeless
Do you like having your tires go flat overnight unless you put toxic goop in them?------- Do you like to pour that toxic goop into the ground when you end up having to put in a tube out on the trail?------ Do you like it when that toxic goop dries out & you have to spend A LOT more than the price of a tube to replace it?------ Do you like having to have an air compressor to inflate an off the rim tire?-------Do you like having a heavier tire, rim, & rim strip/sealing tape to add rotating weight to the outside(worst place) of your wheel?-------Do you like spending more for tires?----------Do you like that if you dent your rim it won't seal anymore?------Do you like having your tires burp air around corners & then go flat?(I like this reason because it cost the guy in front of me a race I won.)-------Do you like to be played by a bunch of marketing hype & people who get the stuff for free so they say nice things about it?---------Do you want me to go on? I can, but I hope I don't need to.
WINNER: Traditional
stan'notubes
WINNER: Tubeless
Both have their intended purposes, advantages, and disadvantages. If I was a pro racer or hard core rider, I might be concerned with the very minimal weight and acceleration differences, regardless of proneness to pinch flats. But, I personally like the double protection of a tubeless system with tubes, you may get a flat, but the pressure will still hold. First day I picked up my 05' 9.8, I never knew I pinched it till later that evening when I stopped riding, and I losened the valve bolt.
WINNER: Tie
Tubeless with gell
WINNER: Tubeless
Traditional tires on tubeless rims.
WINNER: Tubeless
tubless give you better overall performance
WINNER: Tubeless
Last spring I had 18 flats by April. Since i've gone tubeless with stan's, I've only had 2 flats since.
WINNER: Tubeless
vvv
WINNER: Tubeless
I am able to run lower tire pressures and no more pinch flats, which were a common occurance with my tubed tires.
WINNER: Tubeless
Prior to my new bike I had traditional tires running tubeless with Stan's. I had numerous flats until that point and then ran 2 years with Stan's with only one incident. This was with Hutchinson python light's.
My new bike came from the factory with tubeless tires and rims. I had to pump air into the tires weekly. I took off the tubeless tires (Hutchinson Python UST) and put traditional Hutchinson Python light's on with Stan's. Not a problem yet and lost considerable weight and tire changing isn't a knuckle breaker like with UST's.
Conclusion: I wish I had traditional rims again to cut down more weight. If I had to do again I would run traditional tires, rims with Stan's rim tape and stem.
Basically tubeless in a non-typical sense.
WINNER: Tie
While the convienence of installation and removal of a standard tire is nice, once the tubless tire is mounted, the lighter setup without the tube results in faster acceleration and lighter setup for climbing. Both systems have their advantages though.
WINNER: Tie
Okay, here is an interesting observation, post election time. There are a number of folks out there who seem to need to hate something( Bush Voters). They take it out, universally on tubeless. The Pro Tubeless crowd seems to be able to check out something new, and evaluate it based on it's merits, and detriments (Kerry Voters). The Traditionalists, are (in general) negative and crabby about the new guy,(tubeless). Seems like a lack of education, and a closed minded attitude is what pervades their arguments. Tubeless is great, virtually no flats, lighter, faster, better traction. Why would you not like this? Because the first time you tried it, you had no experience, and had a difficulty? If this were the case elsewhere, we would not have oh, say, fire?, Or maybe the next generation even, cause the first time you had sex, it wasn't perfect? There is a learning curve, as in anything that is worthwhile. You really should use sealant, Stans, Tufo, whatever. It stops air seepage in it's tracks, (complaint#1 shot down). It stops 95% of flats before you even know they're happening (#2 shot down). Use traditional tires with sealant to drop extra weight of Tubeless tires ( #3 shot down).I should note that the weight of the sealant is like, 20 or 30 grams which is about 140 grams lighter than a tube. Carry a tube in case of catastrophic hole on tire, this would be the same type of thing that would take down a tubed tire as well. If you are an "extreme" dude, use a tubeless tire for additional sidewall protection, still with sealant though, to take care of all other complaints listed above. The folks who worry about not enough tire patterns should take note of the option of ANY TIRE ON THE MARKET, working with the system! Stans is a great system if you have nice wheels that you don't wish to change, or have crappy wheels and no desire to spend $$$ to change. Come on folks, 60 bucks is not "too expensive" give me a break. Should you be in need of a new rim, Mavic makes tubeless UST rims for about the same price as their comparable high end rims, so that's not worthy of complaint either. Any shop that charges more to build them up is just inept, and covering it up by charging more to make themselves feel better. I have converted dozens of folks to tubeless, built many UST rims up, and have ZERO complaints from anyone. So, have an open mind, try something new, you just may beat your tubed buddies to the top, the next time you ride!
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubeless are great but simply too impractical for the average user. Everything becomes more of a pain, tyre changing, tyre repair, endless pressure checking, worry about your rims, etc.
I just chuck some tubes in and ride. Simple.
WINNER: Traditional
Tubeless works for me:
KEY FACTOR - RUN NON TUBELESS TIRES WITH STAN'S. TUBELESS TIRES ARE ON AVERAGE, 200 GRAMS HEAVIER THAN TUBE TIRES. THAT'S A LOT OF ADDITONAL ROTATIONAL WEIGHT!
1) I Haven't had a flat in a year and a half.
2) Dropped my bike weight & rotational weight. It helps on climbs.
3) I Can drop pressure in the 30 psi range, depending on the conditions.
4) Even if I do get a flat - I carry a tube as a backup - which is what one would have needed if on a tube system.
RIDERS WHO DON'T LIKE TUBELESS, HAVEN'T GIVEN IT A LEGITIMATE CHANCE... IT RULES!
WINNER: Tubeless
tubeless are diffinty the best that avod pinch flate are about two pounds lighter and you can run tham at a lower lps
WINNER: Tubeless
I see no advantage in tubeless tires at this time.
WINNER: Traditional
tubeless are a hassle to fix on the trail if flat - the goop gets everywhere, and hard to reinflate to 60psi to get good seal
WINNER: Traditional
I used to be plaged with flats when I ran tubes- it was so irritating... there were times that I would flat so much I was not having fun riding my bike. I love downhill racing but I also ride allot of XC. I am a very agressive rider. It is simply not true that tubeless does not work for agressive DH riders. I weigh in at 180lbs. Latley i have been logging about 100 miles a week give or take. Two years ago I switched to stans tubless- I will never go back to tubes. Tubless has brought back the fun in riding for me. Now all five bikes of mine are tubless. I have run both UST and Stans- with great sucess. The stans slime is required for both kits IMHO. I prefer UST because UST rims are lighter than regular rims with the stans tubless Kit. Tubeless is not foolproof- I still flat occasionally (maily when running light weight tires on XC bike)- so carry a tube. It also can be difficult for people who are not mechanically inclined or do not have a large compressor to inflate the tires (this makes all the difference in the world!)
The first thing I noticed about tubless was how much faster the wheels seem to roll (losing the weight at the tires makes a huge difference) especially on my downhill bike- I lost an estimated 3 pounds in rotating weight and I can honestly state that I have never gotten a flat on my downhill bike since switching to tubless- running Michelin's, Intense tires, and this summer WTB Timberwolfs. I also noticed that even though I have to run more pressure than what I used to run with tubes (to prevent burping of tire) traction has also increased. Tubeless tires make controling drifts much easier!
I do flat tubless when I run light weight tires on trails like Downieville (only 1 flat this year after 6 or so runs downhill on a 5 inch freeride bike) , mainly I flat my XC bike because I run light tires (although still less than with tubes). Tubless tires also flat more for me when I do not run enough tire pressure. I run 25-40lbs depending on the bike and tire. 25f- 30r on DH bike, 35f-40r on XC bike. Keep in mind that the flats I do have tubless would also surly be a flat with tubes. I also have never had a tire come off the rim- this only occures when a rider does not have enough tire pressure to keep the sidewalls from folding over and burping the tire.
One key to tubless success is tire choice. The only failures I have had are slices in either the sidewall or a slice in the tread that sometimes is right next to a knob and the stans slime cannot seal due to the fact that the knob has too much force on it when riding hard. My solution to this is to run tires that offer heavyer sidewalls and re-enforced tread castings (for DH and FR).
Sidewall slices never seal for me- no big deal just toss a tub in and finish the ride and you can patch the tire when you get home (i will get into how to do this later). Slices on the tread are hit and miss. Sometimes stans slime seals them up before you get a chance to slow down. Sometimes I have to stop and locate the hole- wipe off exess dirts-then orientate the hole down so that the stans pools over the hole- most of the time doing this will seal up the tire (exeption to this is punctures at a knob that will seal up then once you starts riding will reopen due to the extreme forces cornering will put on a knob). Pump up the tire once it has sealed (so you dont burb the tire!!) and away you go! If my tire starts leeking again I will normailly let it seal one more time and if it still does not hold I put a tube in- dont screw around too long with the stans- if it wont seal after two or so tries I just put a tube in. My friends were all sceptical of tubless untill they saw first hand how well stans will seal most puctures. I have noticed also that Stans seems to seal better in warmer weather, if the hole is clean (wipe off with gloves), and as long as there is sufficient Stans in the tire to seal completely. The most common circomstance that requires me to toss a tube in is when I have a tire that was punctured several times- that eventually runs out of Stans tubless solution. To counter this I add more slime than recomended. This makes a big difference in how well a tire will seal. It is a good idea to check your Stans level once a month to make sure that you have enough slime to seal a big slice (allot of puncures you wont even notice so after a while you can run low on slime without even knowing it).
For XC where light weight tires make big difference I run more tire pressure. This helps prevent punctures and slices. I have had great luck with WTB tires tubless. 2.1 weirwolf, 2.1 epicwolf have been fairly reliable for me. XC requires a bit of a trade off- if you run super light tires you will be faster on a climb- but risk flatting more on a descent. Try and find a tire that works for your style. Some of my friends can get away with running lighter tires due to the fact that they dont weight as much as me and do not desire to desent as fast.
I honestly Think that the UST specific tires are mainly hype. I have been running non UST tires far more that UST specific. Plus one of my Friends had bad luck with a set of UST tires that had weak sidewalls and tread. Just look for a strong bead, good sidewall thinkness and heavier casings. These qualities in a tire make a huge difference in flat protection for tubless and wheels with tubes- so if you flat a tire allot with tubes- it probally will be worse when you try and use it tubless. I run any tire I want tubless- so the complant that there arnt enough tire choices are wrong. THis is all just marketing BS.
Dont take my experience as gospal- experiment with your own tire combinations and pressure. Also dont go into it expecting it to work flawlessly. I had a tire that I liked allot with tubes called the WTB Mutanorapor 2.24. Great tire with tubes but tubless I would still flat it (less than with tubes though!!) the solution I found was switching to the Inner peace sidwall version of the tire- same exact size and maybe 2 oz heavyer- I went on to ride that tire all summer on my FR bike without a single flat- just by switching to the innerpeace sidwall and running 35lbs in the rear (for really rocky downhill stuff)- and it was still lighter than the 2.24 with tubes- rolls faster, gives you more traction...
Some tips for setting up a tubless tire:
1-start with new tires- old worn out tires dont always cut it- beads do stretch out after you take them on, and off allot over the years.
2-Dont even bother trying to use a floor pump- I use a large compressor and let it get up over 100lbs- I have never had a tire take more than 10 seconds to inflate with a large high pressure/volume compressor.
3- Put stans slime in before you inflate tire
4-hold tire vertically- shake it to coat the inside bead- rotate a small ammount- repeat untill you have rotated the tire 2 times. This helps seal any initial leaks (sometimes a dirty rim will be strubborn to seal at the bead.
5-run more pressure than you used to with tubes- this will prevent burping the tire and will also prevent punctures and you still get more traction (i dont know why thats just
how it feels)
How to patch a Tubeless tire that has a severe slice: (after the ride)
1-Materials: Acetone (paint thinner will not work! Has to be non oil base product!).
2-Rubber cement (pick up at automotive store).
3-Tubless car tire patches (look simular to patches we all use for tubes but these are for patching car tires, they come in all sizes and shapes, get them at automotive store).
4-Rolling tool (cant remember the exact name) this tool has one side that scratches up
the tire and the other side has a wheel that you roll over the patch to aid in adhesion
and removal of air bubbles.
Remove tire from rim. locate the slice. Use the acetone to clean off the Stans. Be very thourow. The patch will not hold if there is any of the stans residue left on the surface (the latex used in stans leaves a residue that wont allow the rubber cement to glue to the patch). I normally go overkill with the acetone- you cannot get the inside of the tire too clean- use several rags. Next use rolling tool (or whatever it is really called) and scuff up the inside of the tire like you would a regular tube with the scuffing end of the tool. Clean surface one more time (not necessary but I do this just to be safe). Poor on the rubber cement and let it dry. Next put the patch on. Take the rolling tool go over the patch thourouly to get air out and make the patch stick better with the rolling end of the tool. Verify that the patch adhered correctly- my first couple of tries with this method took two tries- but now I patch them the first try. Your tire is now ready to be installed tubless again. I have used this techniqe on all my tires with great sucess. Even inch long sidwall slices patch for me and have not failed yet.
Tubeless is not for everyone- and that is ok with me. Some people are too set in there ways to set up tubeless wheels- maybe what they have works great for them to begin with- others dont have the paitence to get a feel for the tubless system- it is definatly different than tubes. But for me tubless was one of the best upgrades I have done since disk brakes and full suspention. If you are happy with your tubes dont bother. Tubeless is not easy to set up and requires some experimenting to get right. But if you pinch flat allot and wouldnt mind a lighter bike that rolls faster and has more traction at the limit tubless is the only way to go. I hope my experience helps someone get through the hype.
WINNER: Tubeless
I think that tubeless tires suck the traditional tube is way better you guys are retarded for thinking tubeless tires are better
WINNER: Traditional
Tubeless has been best for me:
1) Haven't had a flat in 18 months since going tubeless
2) Dropped my bike weight & rolling weight - helps on climbs, especially 2-3hr+ uphill climbs.
3) Can drop airpressure in the 30 psi range for downhills
4) Even if I do get a flat - I carry a tube as a backup - which is what one would have needed if on a tubesystem.
** Cost sucks - but oh well..
WINNER: Tubeless
I've tried tubeless...it's more of a pain in the butt than it's worth.
WINNER: Traditional
Tubeless Tires and Rims with Stan's!!
WINNER: Tubeless
only tried hutchinson tubless. 1 hole right on the bead. scopions that puncture quicks too with thorns, mosquitos that side walls rip X2
so take a 500g tubed tyre and stick a cheap 180g tube that 680g and hassle free, take a sub 700g tubless and see how far you get... then stick a 180g tube in it.... Thats close to downhill wieght!
Mybe its hutchinsons!!!! ?????
The thing that bugs me big time, is a tubless tyre with a tube in it. thats like having a bike and driving you car the 1/4 mile to the shop!
just cos you cant stop the puncture and its a waist of money just throwing it out!
WINNER: Traditional
if you care about the ride tubeless is the way to go. If your a racer , you can now get tubeless lighter than regular tires and it is still better. More comfort, better traction, lower tire presure. need i say more?
WINNER: Tubeless
My S-works came with tubeless. Had my first flat in 2 years on the
same tires. Unfortunately it was during a triathlon and I lost about 20 min getting a tube in it. ( still won) I'm gonna get new tires and Stans. Live and learn!I'm still gonna go tubeless.
WINNER: Tubeless
First, I'm a xc rider/racer.Believe me tubeless takes time and money. I've tried many, both non-tubeless(Stan's)and tubeless. Traditional is the way to go if your time and funds are limited. However, tubeless will give you the results your looking for. From an economic and performance standpoint go Stan's, rims and sealant. Tubeless!!
WINNER: Tubeless
ive tried tubeless ive pinchflated 3 tires running like 30 -40 psi put 1 inch gashes in the side right along the bead. Ive never done this with tubed tires. i weigh 165
WINNER: Traditional
I noticed a definite increase in acceleration, top speed, and climbing speed when I switched to tubeless (IRC Serac XC). I've also had no flats in over a year now and I've riden easily 100 rides on them. Even though I doubt I could change a tire in less than 20 minutes because they are so friggin' tight I'm not that worried about it anymore. for me it's tubeless.
WINNER: Tubeless
I recently switched from tubes to tubeless. I'm sticking with tubeless due to:
1) (Almost) No Flats
2) Better Traction from ability to run at lower air pressure
Price is steeper, but racing provides the justification
WINNER: Tubeless
I work in a shop and have tried all types of tubeless set ups. While I agree that the ride is better, I think they are a pain in the butt on the trail. I have flatted just as many time with tubeluess, as without. When you do flat, on the trail, you need a tube anyway. They are a pain to get on and off, especially, when its cold out.
Most of them leak air. A few, enough air that I had to reinflate during the ride. Then there is lack of tire choices. As well as the fact that when you cut a sidewall, even a little you are out a tire.
Give me tubes any day
WINNER: Traditional
Tubeless tires and rims with Stans tire sealer.
WINNER: Tubeless
Just a quick blurb on my experience.
How to make any tire tubeless
http://www.cyberus.ca/~will/tubeless.htm
WINNER: Tubeless
NOT ENOUGH TIRE SELECTION YET FOR TUBLESS TIRES , ESP.AGRO TREAD 2.25-2.5 IN.TRAIL BIKE TIRES . WEIGHT PENALTY FOR RUNNING TUBELESS WITH STANS ON A TUBELESS TIRE , MOST GOOD 2.25 OR BIGGER TIRES THAT TAKE TUBES ARE LIGHTER BY FAR THAN THERE TUBELESS COUNTERPARTS . I NOTICED NO ROLLING RESISTANCE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TUBELESS AND TUBE TIRES . I GOT 2 FLATS ON A WEEKEND TRIP TO MOAB WITH TUBELESS TIRES ,OVERNIGHT LEAKER FIXED WITH A PATCH AND THE NEXT DAY A SIDEWALL BLOWOUT(HUTCHINSON OCTIPUS ) , MY FRONT TUBED TIRE (TIMBERWOLFE2.5)NEVER WENT FLAT
WINNER: Traditional
tubeless tires save weieght.
WINNER: Tubeless
I JUST TOSSED ON SOME TUBELESS TIRES AND RIMS AND LET ME TELL YOU THAT I CAN REALLY FEEL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2. SO RIDE HARD AND AND TRICK IT OUT.....KILZ.
WINNER: Tubeless
I've used tubeless and tube type in most applications. Hands down tubeless is the only way to go. Traction and reliabilty are the key factors in my choice. You will have far superior traction with tubeless, it's a given. Reliabilty is the one reason I'm remaining tubeless though, I have only had to resort to repairing a tubeless tire on two occassions, and the tire would not have been salvagable whether it was tubeless or tube type in both cases. I've passed numerous riders on the race courses and trails replacing their tubes since I've ridden tubeless. In the past I did it myself, and if I was lucky I may only need to repair a leak a day later at home. I previously spent my money on patch repair kits and new tubes on a regular basis mostly due to puntures and an occasional snakebite. I prefer to put the money upfront these days, forego the continuous labor of tube repair, and ride into the sunset.
WINNER: Tubeless
Changed to tubeless this year. I've road standard tires on mavic tubeless rims with stans no tube and tubeless tires on tubeless rims. The standard tire sealed with stans is much lighter but harder to mount. Either way I feel tubeless is much better than tire and tube. Only two flats this year and both were ripped sidewalls. I do use stans sealant even in my tubless version tires for extra protection.
WINNER: Tubeless
I like tubed better, but i've never tried the non-tube version
WINNER: Traditional
No contest. Tubeless. With tubeless you don't have to worry about getting bubbles in the inner tubes or having high risk of flats. I have run both, and the tubeless is the only way to fly, they may be more expensive but they are worth it.
WINNER: Tubeless
So this is best you guys can do, huh? What a bunch of (pardon the pun) airheads. Why worry about losing air at all?
Listen and learn kiddies: Buy any old (or new) wheel+tire combo. Then get your self some methyl isoprene. Fill the tires with that nasty stuff, and let it cook for about three months at 158 degrees (don't forget to turn them once in a while, so that you get nice even browning all around).
When done you will have your self absolutely puncture proof tires. So what if they weight ten pounds a piece. Anything is better that walking....
WINNER:
There is no arguement. Tubless wins. Carry a tube for flats and that is that. Anybody who says they are to heavy or the terrain in their area is to rough either has poor riding skills or just had bad luck. I have 5 bikes and 4 have tubless. I can't imagine how the traditional wheels are better. You must use some Stan's or latex in them though for long term health.
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubeless by far! I have the MAVIC UST setup. Ran Hutchinson python 2.0s for about 900 miles. Now riding a geax 2.25 in back, can't remember what is up front after riding in Moab. What I have learned:
1. Not all UST tires are equal
2. Ssome are easy to install (though I have never needed CO2 or a compressed air to seat the beads), some are not.
3.Some hold hair for many many miles. Some don't.
4. I can always put a tube in it.
5. I have never had a pinch flat.
6. I have ruptured the side walls on 3 different tires. twice with slime, once with nothing. Slime held air up to about 25psi one time, enough to get me back to the truck. The other time, no way. Using stan's now, and haven't noticed a thing.
7. I'll probably never go back to tubes.
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubeless can be a pain for everyday:
-not as true and squirrely on pavement (not great for city commuting)
-blowouts are difficult to repair in the field, using a floorpump turns into a world-class standing pushup event (I recommend CO2 cartridges or an air compressor, at least for the first inflation. Using a little soapy water also helps).
-takes twice the effot to get the tire seated on the rim (again with the soapy water)
-may loose a small amount of air over time (but not based on my experience)
But it's dynamite on the trail for a few very good reasons:
- No rim pinches. None.
- A tubeless tire is more supple and can run flatter, providing a greater area of contact with the ground, thus better traction.
If you can afford it, get a second set of training wheels with clincher rims. If you don't race or can't afford it (and the advantages still outweigh the disadvantages) you can always mount a clincher tire and tube in a tubeless rim with a little extra work (despite what anyone says).
I'm not saying it's for everyone, but I'm certainly sold on its advantages.
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubeless = Better Ride
Better Grip
Better puncture resistance w/Stan's
Less rotational resistance
Cheaper - yep CHEAPER because I don't have to buy
tubes anymore therefore by the time you factor in the cost
of a traditional tire PLUS all of the tubes you will be
buying because of flats the tubeless setup comes out
ahead.
WINNER: Tubeless
After getting a few pinch flats within 2 months, I decided to switch to tubeless using Mavic UST X3.1 and Hutchinson UST Phyton 2.0 tires. Also put in Stans Notubes sealant. This was 6 months ago and wasn't sure whether Stans would work. I charged down a hill at 40km last week and had a metal wire 3 inches long and 2-3mm in diameter punch a hole straight into my rear tire. I pulled it out and the air started to shoot out (I pump to 30psi). It was even shooting out Stans sealant and it was a little watery. Finally the leak stopped but it still had about 5-10psi and I continued riding for another 3kms off-road and down-hills. I decided to pump it up and it did not leak. Managed to ride another 3-5km home and left it to settle for a few hours. That night, I used my floor pump and pumped it back to 30psi and there were no leaks from the hole. The next day I rode another 10km off-road on some pretty rought trail and the pressure was the same. The is the only puncture I have since switching to tubeless 6 months ago and it does seem faster eventhough the UST system is heavier (tires are 680gm each) and the rims are heavier too than normal rims. UST Tubeless System and Stans is good but to reduce weight, traditional rim and tires (no inner tubes) with Stans rim tape and sealant should be better. But UST tires are stronger in terms of side-wall strength.
WINNER: Tubeless
Pure physics and engineering, kids. Status quo in every other mode of transportation known to man. When was the last time you fixed a tube in your car?
Tubeless is a quantum leap, and Stan's the man. Literally thousands of miles later, I'm all in. No going back. And if I do tear a sidewall or get a flat that the liquid latex can't handle, I put a tube in it till I get home.
Winner: TUBELESSSS by miles. No pinchflats, lighter, faster, better.
Sorry traditionalists, I think it's because you are too lazy and too indoctrinated into the status quo to think outside the box.
Too bad. The innovators get the performance enhancement.
WINNER: Tubeless
stop plying with stan, don't you belive in tradition
WINNER: Traditional
I think tubeless tires are the way to go when cross country riding on rocky, muddy and root covered trails. For some reason, they just ride smoother and grip so much better than tires with tubes. Less bouncing around and they stay glued when flying around a sharp benc on the trail. But they're not as fast as the traditional tires so if you are a racer, you might want to stay with traditionals. If you plan on doing lots of trail riding, go with tubeless. The only drawback is that when you puncture a tubeless, you are out of luck since the tire has to be replaced versus only replacing the tube on a traditional set up.
WINNER: Tubeless
I cant deal with the tubeless. With a tradional tire, if it pops you just get a new tube, instead of buying a whole new tire.
WINNER: Traditional
From an economic and environment standpoint, Tubeless.
From a stubborn Biker standpoint, Traditional.
With a little dab o' Stan's......your golden
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubes to Stans. I use light weight Velocity Aero Heat Speed Dream wheels and tube type tires with Stans. First time with these I rode 17 miles was still fresh normaly I'm done at 8 miles, ready for my nap. The draw back is flats. Rock tears, dried out stop leak. I will not go back to tubes again
WINNER: Tubeless
I switched to standard tires on a Stan's notubes.com system. It's awesome in the desert (thorny) environment. I dropped pounds in bike weight (because I used to run thorn resistant tubes & slime). The tires are lightweight and puncture/pinch flat resistant. Riding with low tire pressure provides a softer ride and improved traction. My bike is both faster and more nimble. I'll never go back to tubes.
WINNER: Tubeless
Ummm...tubeless. It's called notubes kit. Works magic on a bike...no pinch flats (ever...not even northstar)...lighter for racing...much less rolling resistance...heplps that heavy cromo dj bike feel lite again.
So...tubeless...duh. I run a stans kit in my v10 and my PlanetX.
WINNER: Tubeless
ITS WOT U PREFER
WINNER: Tie
UST rims and tires are the bomb by themselves. Everyone already knows about the low tire preasures you can run, that's not secret. The real secret to tubeless systems is the addition of Stan's notubes. www.notbues.com if you add this to a ust sytem you are set, and I mean TOTALLY set. you can pretty much kiss flats goodbye all together. If you read MBA magazine you'll know how much they preach about this stuff. This makes traditional tire systems obsolete
WINNER: Tubeless
regular is the shit!!!!!!!!! just get a downhill tire and u dont need to deal with the tubeless crap!!!!!!!!!!!!
WINNER: Traditional
In four years of aggresive riding and racing I've had about a flat a year, and never during a race. I ride performance lite tubes and Hutchinson Python Air Light tires.
WINNER: Traditional
In four years of aggresive riding and racing I've had about a flat a year, and never during a race. I ride performance lite tubes and Hutchinson Python Air Light tires.
WINNER: Traditional
I have been riding my tubeless tires for about 3 years now (CrossMax/Hutch Python's), and compared to my other bikes using traditional ones, the tubeless ones just seemed to roll faster everywhere, grips just as good as my Enduro Pro 2.2 (considering the not so aggressive tread pattern) and punctures just as much (though I noticed only after the ride, and only due to thorns). I never had real problems with it aside from the normal wear and tear mtb tires go through. If there is a weight issue, and if it is a big thing for you, there are now a wide variety of combinations you can try out to get it down to the weight you want. I guess its really up to the rider if he/she races a lot and he/she is willing to shell out some dough for it than by all means go tubeless. But for everyday, anywhere, anytime kind of riding, its hard to get the same bang-for-your-buck that traditional tire set-up gives.
WINNER: Tie
for the last year I've been running wtb epic wolfs on mavic 317 rims with stans no tube system. The light weight of the traditional system with the benefits of lower air ressures can't be beat. You'll notice that the tire companies are trying to get the ust weights down on their new lines because of the weight issue. Stan's has made a huge difference in my tire and bikes performance. I was skeptical about the whole ust benefit until I went tubless and I won't go back. My roomamte used to race on traditional with stan's but he cought a new scapel that came with ust's. He still uses stans in them to seal the small leaks and to prevent flats. I've converted alot of friends that didn't believe until I left them in the dirt or they got flats and I didn't. try it, its worth every penny. Just pay attention to detail when mounting the tire to the rim, follow the directions at the web site, and use a wider tire, my wolfs seated fine but I have trouble with my kenda's. My continentals worked great also.
WINNER: Traditional
Ok here we Go if you are the average guy "I am Not 6'4" and 210 lbs lean" then the tubeless situation is most likely for you. tubeless offers a lot of +s but a lot of -s as well.I have tried Hutchinson, IRC, Michelin and Kenda in tubeless versions and they all will not handle the terrain and speed at which I ride" So Cal rocky soil". All of them tore at the sidewall or in the casing between the Nobs! They all were run at average pressure of 40 lbs rear and 35 lbs front. So lets see if I run them lower PSI then they fold in corners and will pop the bead, puncture flats were cured by running slime in the tire and saved me from walking more than once. For me the tubeless tires are race day only and can never be ridden on average trails and training rides. So I would say that overall they are not for the above average clydesdale rider that Hammers, If you are below 180lbs and ride somewhat hard then they probally can handle what you dish out. I will stick with my Tubed tires as tubeless is actually not that much lighter more expensive and not nearly as reliable.
WINNER: Traditional
My bike (s-works FSR-XC) came set up with MAVIC Crossmax/Specialized Enduro Pro (s-works). I loved tubeless for about 2 rides, and then reality set in. I am 5'10", 200lbs (I lean out at @ 190), ride hard, and am a very good technical rider. I ride at @ 45-50 PSI, on mostly hardpack, technical terrain. Sticks, thorns and sharp rocks are everywhere I ride, and they took out both my front and rear tubeless tires in only two rides. After doing some research, I figured out that light traditional tires (with light tubes) are actually lighter than many of the tubeless offerings I have seen. Maybe the lure of lower tire pressure is appealing to some of you, but at my weight, I would roll the tires off of the rims on any given ride if I went any lower. The ease of use, consistant air pressure, tire availability, and overall reliability make me stay with traditional tires. Technology is good, but sometimes it just makes things more difficult. Besides, how many of you can really feel the difference in contact on your tubeless vs traditional? I think a lot of people out there are defending tubeless because it is "cool and new", not because it is better.
WINNER: Traditional
tubeless has better traction, a more plush ride without increased rolling resistance associated with running a lower psi, and can be lighter than tubed depending on tire and wheel choice. no air leakage (running mavic xm819 w/ conti vert and WTB weirwolf). tubeless patch kit from panaracer nullifies the hassle sometimes associated with repairing a tubeless tire. why go tubed?
WINNER: Tubeless
I have been using the Stan's notube system for 18 months; and found it to be extremly reliable ie. no punctures on very rocky ground; although sometimes hard to get the tyre to seat initially.Also not good if you put your bike on a plane often as letting the tyres go flat is not great either.I have found using wire beaded tyres works better.
I recently bought a Jeckyl with tubeless rims and tyres(hutchinson scorpions)and was dissapointed to have 2 flats in the first month on the rear tyre.These tyres are ridiculously heavy and have very average traction.So I have reverted to my Stan's system using Tioga wire beaded tyres which is about a pound lighter than the designated tubeless system and the tyres are not leaking and no flats.....I would like to try Stan's RIMS next as he definitely has the best system.I have seen many conventional tubeless rim and tyre combinations fail, and know of lots of folk who use Stan's latex fluid to remedy their faults.
WINNER: Tubeless
I got them on my 2002 NRS. I have 2 flats from glass, because I only have one bike and it sees street use too.
Standard European green patch-kit worked fine for my tubeless flat. On Hutchinson's, you must find the puncture on the outside of the tire. The insides are too textured to notice anything.
Baring the two flats, air leakage is not anymore more than I notice on conventional tires. I think its even think less. I assume that this would vary on what tire and rim. I suspect that the people who do conversions may have more problems.
I do carry a spare tube, so if I blow out the whole wheel, I can still get home.
Note: I found that I couldn't get enough air volume to seat the tire with a small plastic clipon-type air pump. For this reason, I would suggest carrying a spare tube or a C02 inflater for tubeless. Hanging the wheel, as well as wetting the bead with soapy water helps seat the bead which worked well with a bicycle pump. It was nice not to have to mess with stuffing the tube in there nicely.
I do ride my bike on the street, and I read that there is a strong relationship between tire pressure and rolling resistance. I did an informal experiment with tire pressure...
I tried raising the tire pressure to very firm, probably about the tire's rating.
So...
After my street test, I had forgotten that I had raised the tire pressure. When I went in the trails, the tail kept kicking out on me in a really spookie way.
From my experiment, I would think that the nice big contact patch from a soft tire is nice to have in the trails. It is my belief that with tubeless, you can run less pressure without getting pinch-flat.
WINNER: Tubeless
I recently bought a bike with tubeless wheels and I must say I was a bit scetchy regarding their performance. Being a cross country racer demands fast tires that are problem free. So far the traction combined with the outstanding rolling capabilities have blown me away. I can never go back to traditional tires. If you have never ridden tubeless, I suggest you do, It's as big of a differece as toe straps to clipless pedals, for those who remember that transition..OUT
WINNER: Tubeless
So I bought and installed Stan's NoTubes system last week. I dropped almost 370 grams from the front wheel alone! (I had had a slime tube in it previously.) So I keep the puncture resistance, but drop the weight. So far, so good. I ride it for a little bit, holds up fine. Then I decide to jump off one of my favorite rocks. Well, I didn't think about how my front end was now almost a whole pound lighter, so when I went off, I pulled up too hard on the bars. This was not good. I land on the rear wheel, front wheel almost straight up in the air. My reflexes were too slow to grab my rear brake, and so back I go! I landed on my back, HARD. I couldn't breathe for at least a full minute--felt like ten! Eventually I was able to stop writhing on the ground, get up, get my bike, and drag it back home (which, luckily, was only 100 yards away). Thought at first I may have cracked a rib, but turned out I just had a bruised kidney. I was back on my bike the next day, though I think I will wait for the soreness to go away before I attempt the jump again.
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubless on my FIsher Suger 2+...5 months and not a single flat..pumped the tires up once after I put Stan's in them. Ran over some barbed wire a few weeks back and the tire sealed itself in about 5 seconds! Just converted the regular rims on my hardtail 3 weeks ago...same deal as above! TUBLESS, with Stan's, all the way!
WINNER: Tubeless
Traditional! Cheap, Simple, Available!
WINNER: Traditional
stans no-tubes is the only way to go. lighter faster seals flats. i had a 1/4 inch gashin my tire during a race they sealed it up and i was able to finish with out stoping.
WINNER: Tubeless
Tradtional what else! Maybe I'll shift to tubeless later If I have lots of dollars.
WINNER: Traditional
Love both rims and tires..Seems so much lighter than traditional tires..Absorb bumps easier thus smoother and less bumpy ride due
to lower tire pressure..Had a flat tire once and fixed that with half
a tube of slime on each tire..Never been happier..It made riding more
enjoyable for me.
WINNER: Tubeless
It has to be tubeless: lighter weight, no pinch flats, lower pressure = more grip.
WINNER: Tubeless
I dont know where all this tubless tire stuff is comeing from
anyway I ride mostly on the street and high air pressure is the ticket to going faster on the street and lower pressure is smoother but slower on the street not dirt get the picture.
WINNER: Traditional
I've used both,I like the tubeless better because I was pinch flatting a lot.I can run lower psi and hook up a lot better.
That's why you go tubeless right?I think they're even easyer to
patch than A tube(AT HOME)The only downfall,,the tires are a little
bit pricey.
WINNER: Tubeless
Gone through heaps of rear tubless tyres in six months, from 1.9 Maxxis 2.0 Pythons and up to 2.1 PanRacer FireXC's all them have flatted when hopping or jumping. I've also tried stans, slime and zefal but they havn't stopped the flats. I'm now on tubes with normal tyre. My front is still tubeless though. In my experience tubeless if you are a racer or non technical rider. Otherwise i'm afraid it might have to be tubes.....
WINNER: Tie
tubless rims with stans crap inside of regular tires!! I've blown up about 2 dozen tubless tires. The sidewalls suck. I recommend some beffy traditional tires with stans crap inside. Works like a charm... but then my idea of low tire pressure is 42psi. anything lower and I will flat tubless also... or ding my rims.
of course... that being said. once I've blown a few big pinch flats in them, I'm back to tubes...
WINNER: Tie
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WINNER: Tubeless
I'm sure tubeless have advantages but the range of choices so far is too limited. I'm in Korea and it's a real headache trying to find suitable tubeless tires compared to the great range of traditional tires. doesn't help that my bike came with Hutchison Scorpians that slip out under me even on wet road surfaces.
WINNER: Tie
Hi,
Ok Tubeless might be better and Stan certainly looks like the man. But when it all goes bang and there is no inner tube to protect the rim or tyre, Who will be pushing their bike home, or dare i say it be putting an inner tube in. It might not be better but it is a safer bet for the all day ride over rough ground. If it gets better i might consider.
WINNER: Traditional
Tubeless = less flats
WINNER: Tubeless
And what happens when you hit a root so hard and your tire comes off the rim? Tubes are my choice.
WINNER: Traditional
If you open your mind and try tubeless for a few rides you will not go back. Yes, there may be some issues but traditional tires do to.
WINNER: Tubeless
never ridden tubeless but i know that many more options come in traditional and its much easir to swap out tires depending on whether or not im gonna be doin dh or urban assault type riding
WINNER: Traditional
I wish the guys at the LBS knew they were suppose to fill the tire to 60psi then deflate and refill and then deflate and fil to desired pressure. Then I could have been loving my tubeless from the get-go.Tubeless wins. dumb bike mechanics lose.
WINNER: Tubeless
traditional is better. If you do flat they are easier to fix. The tires are less expensive, and If you are going for light weight a tubed set up can be built lighter. Unless you are a downhiller or like to run really low presseres tubed wins in my book.
WINNER: Traditional
i use stans sealer with crossmax and michelins and havent had to add air or had a flat in three months. they also handle better.
WINNER: Tubeless
Stan's Tubeless is better than either traditional tube/tire or UST. Light, no pinch flats, cheap(er), easy on/off, and I don't even have to dismount the wheel or tire if I get a compression flat.
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubeless. When you're looking to cut down on weight there's no point in that extra rubber.
WINNER: Tubeless
I know many people who have said that they like tubeless because if you get a flat, all you need to do is pump some sealant in and go. That may be true, but it I don't think it hurts to have an extra lining of rubber in there...even if only for peace of mind.
WINNER: Traditional
I have ridden w/ tubeless tires for the past year in rocky and rooty conditions and can say that tubeless tires perform better than tires w/ tubes. Traction has improved and I haven't pinch flatted once. You do have to check tire pressure every time you ride, but I do this anyway when I check my suspension.Go tubeless!
WINNER: Tubeless
Western Pennsylvania is a mud pit most of the year. I've rode several thousand miles over my six years as a mountain biker. I purchased a Mavic X517 wheelset and two Hutchinson Scorpion Gold Elites,converted them with Stans system and never enjoyed better traction. No flats,no air burp,and a more supple ride. The only problem I could detect is an increased "rolling hum" on pavement and on crusty snow and ice. I even put my homemade studded tires aside for emergency deep snow use. Tubless is king. Read your instructions carefully and contact someone for help if you need it,never the less,Stans is dummy proof with the right rim tire combo.
WINNER: Tubeless
Western Pennsylvania is a mud pit most of the year. I've rode several thousand miles over my six years as a mountain biker. I purchased a Mavic X517 wheelset and two Hutchinson Scorpion Gold Elites,converted them with Stans system and never enjoyed better traction. No flats,no air burp,and a more supple ride. The only problem I could detect is an increased "rolling hum" on pavement and on crusty snow and ice. I even put my homemade studded tires aside for emergency deep snow use. Tubless is king. Read your instructions carefully and contact someone for help if you need it,never the less,Stans is dummy proof with the right rim tire combo.
WINNER: Tubeless
I HAVE NO WINER AT THIS TIME, I'M RUNNING MY TRADITIONAL X517 WHEEL SET, AND MICH. COMP TIRES, AND WITHOUT GETTING A PINCH FLAT IN YEARS, THE TRICK IS, KEEP ALWAYS RECOMENDED AIR PRESSURE AND A KEVLAR PROTECTION BAND BETWEEN THE TIRE AND TUBE. I'D HAVEN'T TRY TUBELESS, BUT, I WILL TRY TO CONVERT MY TRADITIONAL WHEEL SET TO TUBELESS, TRYING STAN'S TUBELESS SYSTEM, BECAUSE IS MORE CHEAP, INSTEAD OF BUY A BRAND NEW TUBELESS WHEEL SET, AND BECAUSE STAN'S T. SYS. WORKS WONDERFULL, SOMETIMES BETTER OF UST SYSTEM WHEELS, EVERYBODY SAID. WELL LETS SEE, WHAT HAPPENS TO MAKE MY SCORE.
WINNER:
The only advantage tubless has is you can run lower air pressure without getting a pinch flat as often but this increases rolling resistance. If you ride the way I do and you weigh around 200lbs (no I am not fat either) that tire is going to blow off the bead from the side load. If you get a flat on the trail you either have to patch it (which you can't do if you run sealant) or put a tube in (which if you run sealant you have to dump it on the trail then remove the valve from the rim and put it in a safe place and then put a tube in). If you put a tube in then you have even more weight than a tire tube set up. You are not saving much if any weight by running tubeless. You are limited in tire choices. If you cut a sidewall guess what!! you are running a tube again. Bottom line is it just isn't worth it. I can get anything I want at less than cost because of my job and I will stay with a tire and tube because it works better in any/all conditions.
WINNER: Traditional
Tubless takes the cake when it comes to traction and cornering control, but to be just as reliable as a traditional tubed setup. There are a few things you must adhere to: 1) Always use in conjunction with a tubless sealant(Stan's) to further elimate thorn punctures or pinch flats(yes, a tubless tire will pinch flat)...and 2) Always carry a spare tube since reinflation of a tubless tire is a b___ch trail side. 3) The risk of breaking tire levers is greater with tubless since tubless tires are generally tighter to get on and off of the rim---so always carry three or more sturdy tire levers.
Bottom line: Side by side across the board...tubless is the way to go!
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubeless sounds great but..what if you need to have the wheel retrued-rebuilt,or what if you want a different tire for different conditions? Stans sounds a little bit inflexable and the UST system tires are very heavy. Until I am convinced that I can change to a different tire,or I stop beating my rear tire to death I'll keep the tubes.And my friends with rim brakes are having catastophic failures on long fast downhills.
WINNER: Traditional
Stans using nontubeless rims and tires. Never have to add air and no pinch flats!
WINNER: Tubeless
Stan's Rules! I can run 35psi with no pinchflats and my 450g tires for a superlight setup.
WINNER: Tubeless
tubless with slime, with out doubt
WINNER: Tubeless
The ability to run 20-30 PSI makes tubeless worth any hassle/weight/price. They really aren't harder to mount or fix, with Stan's puncture flats haven't bothered me at all.
WINNER: Tubeless
Why do sooo many of you lightweights like tubeless. I mean think about it. Companys like slime have spent millions on leak research and believe me they wouldn't do that for nothing. You can realy get a good seal if you completely fill the tube with sealant. And the tire developes good enertia when going downhill! And tubeless just has such an empty ring to it.SUASAGE RULES!!!
WINNER: Traditional
Tubless: Fewer flats, better traction, better ride.
WINNER: Tubeless
Tires can add hundreds of grams to the weight of your bike. DO NOT USE TIRES - Ride on your rims and remove ever other spoke and you'll become a much better rider. In addition, cut off the ends of your handle bars (the parts with those troublesome levers) to further save weight and improve your skills.
WINNER: Hospital
WINNER:
Stan's NoTubes with standard rims and tires is the lightest and cheapest setup. A big plus is running 30-35psi for better traction and a better ride with no worrys about pinch flats.
WINNER: Tubeless
I spend less money on Tubeless than on traditional. regular Irc mythos ($14) 1 qt of Stans sealant lasts all year ($12). Tape spoke holes with fiberglass strapping tape ($5 roll) on any rim. And my cheapo setup is lighter than any standard tubeless setup. cut a sidewall; fix with a dollar bill or powerbar wrapper, use spare tube. this is no different from a tubed tire. fix the tire with a patch on the inside and re-Stan it. Many have already stated the tubeless' advantage for pinchflats and puncture-proofing.
caveats: access to pressurized air is a must. If you ride your bike less than once every other week stick to tubes; leave your bike for a month and you're likely to have to redo the initial inflation process before you ride. If you're riding is mild, don't bother; however if you see rocks, roots, steep climbs, snow, etc, the low pressure rules.
WINNER: Tubeless
tubless is just a waste of money there is no need to spend more money on a rim that looses air over night, they suck if you tear a side wall you are screwed and have to walk home vs. riding
WINNER: Traditional
Tubless wins always
WINNER: Tubeless
hands down standard or traditional rims, with Stan's notubes. This is the lightest possible combination, since you can use any kevlar tire. Try hutchinson python air light tires with Stan. 485g for the tire, just a little more weight for the sealant. It eventually dries anyway, leaving a sealed tire and zero extra weight. What you get is all the advantages of tubeless (better traction, no pinches, less rotational mass) without the price tag, and without weight penalties for both rim and tire.
WINNER: Tubeless
I recently switched to tubeless tires and it took a while to get the pressure settings right for each area that I frequest. Once that was figured out there is no way that I would return to tube tires. The grip is better, the versitility is better, the ride is better and the chances of getting a flat are reduces.
WINNER: Tubeless
for racing, i use my crossroc disk wheelset with michelin front s/xls setup and have not had a single problem. the tires are only 30 grams heavier than pythons, and have much better cornering ability! they are great for the races i do (expert/elite) and the wheels are also awsome, im only 15 so crossmaxes are a bit out of my reach... Next year. but for now, crossroc's are just as awsome!
WINNER: Tubeless
Tubeless is the way to go. I have been riding mountain bikes for nearly fifteen years and have gone through countless tires in that time. A few years ago I went with tubeless wheels and tires and have had very few problems with them. Flats have been almost eliminated. I have noticed improvments in traction, controll, and comfort. I have had very little trouble with tires loosing air between rides when the tires are installed correctly (inflated to 60 psi, deflated, and reinflated to full psi, deflated, and inflated to the desired pressure). Besides tire pressure should be checked before each ride anyways.
WINNER: Tubeless
I ride singlespeeds, one has Hutchinson Python Airlite of the regular variety, then I switched to the other with Tubeless Hutchinson Pythons and the difference was immediate. More control on corners, they provide a more supple ride, better all around performance.
WINNER: Tubeless
Started racing on traditionals 2 years ago - Double flatted out of 3 races. switched over to tubeless (bontrager race lite UST with pythons UST) and noticed my bike handling improved immediateley- better grip traction less rolling resistance. I also now own a pair of MAVIC CROSSMAX and run them with reg pythons and STANS. Both work great but the Crossmax with STANS are lighter and stronger. So i race on those and train on the Bontragers. When I ride traditional tires now (on a friends bike) - I dont see how I used to ride them.
WINNER: Tubles - less or in my case zero,... flats, lower pressure, better grip, less rolling resistance...just plain faster
WINNER: Tubeless
I bought a new bike with tubeless tires on it and thought it was way cool
Till I got a flat on it
had to fill the bathroom tub about halve full of water
then air up the tire on rim to max. tire pressure
then put it in the water looking for air bubbles and taging them with pins
removeing the rim from the water
and removing the tire from the rim is about the easyest part
then I used tubless tire patches for a car seem to be the only thing that works good on them not bike patches they dont stick well on tubless
then airing the tire up again
conclusion: you need a big watering hole to find the leaks
now I think I need new tubless tires so I go to every bike dealer in my area to find out they dont carry tubless tires I think im the only one with tubeless tires in my area
tubless tires need more time before all the bugs are worked out
got a total of 3 flats in about 5 months with tubeless
I will be switching to reg. tires with very light tubes for the meantime
WINNER: Traditional
In the period following the Second World War, both wages and prices have both grown with the former rising more rapidly than the latter. This signalled a significant break from the past where, for much of the previous century and the interwar years, prices had tended to fall. This downward rigidity of price since 1945 is evident only in industrial goods, and not in agricultural or raw material prices. For industrial products, the processes of concentration and differentiation, together with the rise in collective bargaining of wages, are responsible for arresting this fall in prices, as they allow producers significant latitude to set prices at a certain level above costs. Concentration describes the merging of firms so as to create situations of oligopoly within industries, therein opening scope for both explicit and tacit collusion. Differentiation refers to activities such as advertising and brand identity aimed at creating a distinct market for, frequently, essentially generic products by capturing consumer loyalty, trust or desire. The notion of competition as a key determinant of price, so vital to orthodox supply and demand theory, had become entirely invalidated in the realm of industrial products. For agricultural products and raw materials, however, supply and demand continued to shape price in the short term and with long run prices following costs of production. Only a sharp fall in the price of raw materials will reduce the prices of finished, industrial products.
Downward rigidity in both wages and prices has considerable consequences for economic growth. A fall in prices for the products of one firm becomes a fall in costs for another, which in turn creates a continuum of cost reductions. So long as prices are downwardly rigid, however, this factor promoting growth is lost. So too can the productivity gains to be made through technical and mechanical substitution of labour be lost. If prices rise faster than wages, managers no longer find it advantageous to substitute machines for labour, and as a result the incentive for the producers of those machines to manufacture increasingly more efficient products is lost.
The weak state of US unionism after the First World War kept wage growth down during a period of significant productivity gains. This led to a significant shift towards profits that, as a result of lacklustre demand, was directed toward speculative investment and stocks. The crash of 1929 was the result of too much share being appropriated to profits, as if there was �too much fuel in the engine�, and this runs completely against orthodox conceptions of profit being the driving economic force. As Sylos-Labini argues, �when trade unions achieve wage increases close to, though not significantly higher than, the rate at which productivity is increasing, they perform an action that is favourable to economic growth.�
Brazil
Under the extreme pressures of the depression throughout Latin America there was a general switch to a new order of exchange controls, higher tariffs, quantitative trade restrictions, exchange depreciation and debt default. Whilst the initial Latin American policy response was generally according to gold standard rules, that being to defend the exchange rate through tighter monetary and fiscal policy and loss of gold reserves, Brazil was only able to sustain this policy approach for one year, until October 1930, when their reserves were depleted. Consequently, from1930 until 1961 Brazil shifted their economic policy approach by adopting an import substitution model of industrialisation.
During the 1930�s the Brazilian national revolution took place, at which point, industrialisation began, underpinning its development. The beginnings of the revolution were established during the 1930�s because of the confluence of two major factors.
Firstly, Brazil had the economic opportunity for industrial investments that developed, paradoxically, as a result of the worldwide economic depression and the revolution of 1930. Unlike the previous revolution, the revolution of 1930 had successful historical timing and succeeded through Brazils coffee cultivation and export industry.
Previously, Brazil functioned like any other typical semicolonial country, with the unique exception being that their fundamental industry, coffee cultivation, initiated the large-scale use of wage labour (usually by means of tenant farming) rather than slave labour. The leading producers were consciously aware of the benefits in using wage labour acknowledging that it enabled remunerated labour to �began to arise outside the urban centres on a large scale, permitting the formation of an incipient domestic market� (Pereira; 1984; 14). Consequently domestic commerce began to gain a degree of strength and the basic conditions for the establishment of a national industry orientated towards a domestic market began to develop.
It is also important to recognize two additional factors. Firstly, industrialization is only possible to the extent that a domestic market exists. Secondly, paralleling the development of a domestic market, Brazil was experiencing a massive immigration influx, further encouraged by the increase in demand for wage labourers in coffee cultivation. With them, these ambitious immigrants brought their technical knowledge that came to be one of the bases for the take off of the Brazilian economy.
The second foundation which kick started Brazils economy was a product of �the unexpected and paradoxical appearance of an immense opportunity for industrial investment� (Pereira; 1984; 16) as a result of the Great Depression. With the help of historical timing, industrialisation policy succeeded, for two fundamental reasons. Firstly, because domestic purchasing power was maintained at a relatively constant level, despite the global depression that reduced Brazilian exports, and secondly because �the prices of imported manufactured items rose radically because of exchange rate devaluation, so that the country�s foreign purchasing power was reduced while domestic purchasing power was maintained� (Pereira; 1984; 17).
Due to the insufficiency of classical exchange rate regulation, to improve Brazil�s foreign purchasing power it was imperative that the government adopt a solution exogenous to market mechanisms, for the problem of unsold inventories. The government decided upon purchasing and destroying the coffee surplus. This was vital as it prevented the collapse of coffee prices due to the low price-elasticity of demand that was not matched by any increase in sales. Whilst the investment was directly unproductive in the short term, it was essential during the depression as it enabled Brazil to maintain employment in the export economy and consequently maintain the level of aggregate demand. In turn this upheld the level of employment in productive sectors linked to the domestic market. Therefore, due to the significance of the coffee industry, it was not vital that that the government did not intend to maintain the level of national aggregate demand, so long as they gave a measure of support to the coffee sector which was threatened with collapse.
The maintenance of aggregate demand had an additional importance in the growth of an exceptional opportunity for industrial investments at the beginning of the 1930�s, as it was linked to the dramatic rise in the prices of imported manufactured products. The devaluation of the Brazilian currency was directly linked to the crisis in coffee exports whose US price fell from $0.225 per pound in 1929 to $0.008 per pound in 1931 (Maddison; 1995; 26) because of the depression. Furthermore, in accordance with the low price-elasticity of demand for coffee, Brazil�s exports grew very little. Whilst there was the occasional minor growth of export volume throughout the period, it never managed to match the sharp decline in the value of exports.
This steep decline in Brazils foreign purchasing power, whilst domestic purchasing power was simultaneously being maintained by the exogenous government purchase and destruction of coffee surpluses, could have only resulted �in an approximately 50% rise in the prices of manufactured products imported into Brazil. This fact is made even more significant as because during the same period, (1929-1934) domestic prices in Brazil had generally fallen about 7%� (Pereira; 1984; 19). Consequently it was no longer economically viable to import manufactured goods so there opened up a great opportunity for national entrepreneurs to make highly profitable investments in the industrial sector. The idle capacity of the national enterprises was rapidly utilized. In March 1931, the Vargas government, who were closely linked to the representatives of Brazilian industry, prohibited the importation of machinery for all industries considered to be in a state of overproduction. This protectionism fostered the development of new investment in new sectors. Whilst investment often began only with limited amounts of capital, in small-scale production systems, and most likely for consumer products, eventually industries and production began to increase in their diversity and scale. In this way, �by 1935 Brazilian industrial output had become 27% greater than in 1929 and 90% greater than in 1925. Between 1920 and 1929, 4697 industrial establishments were created�, compared 12,232 during the succeeding decade� (Pereira; 1984; 19). Thus, Brazilian industrial development had been launched.
Today, Brazil imports virtually no significant manufactured consumer products as they have developed their own nationally produced substitutes. Consequently, the dependence of the economy and national income upon exports has dropped significantly. The basic objective is no longer to produce more for export (at extremely low prices in relation to imports) but to produce more for internal consumption. Thus through economic policy during the 1930�s there was �both an extraordinary growth and a redistribution of national income. Brazil ceased to be basically an agricultural country� (Pereira; 1984; 10). In addition to agriculture and trade, two new sectors had begun to show an important growth, those being industry and the state.
Debt delinquency was the final important factor in alleviating the payment difficulties some developing Latin American countries during the 1930�s. Brazil eased its payment burden considerably over the course of the 1930�s through debt delinquency. �In 1929 its foreign bond indebtedness amounted to � about 31.5%� (Maddison; 1995; 26) of its GDP. However, by the end of 1943, foreign debts were eventually written down to less than a quarter of their nominal value in the 1943 wartime agreements with the UK and the US.
However out of all of this, it is vital to acknowledge that despite Brazil�s relative success in dealing with the great depression, its very attempt to manipulate the world coffee market produced the excess of stocks which was a major reason for the huge decline in world coffee prices and their failure to recover in the 1930�s. Therefore, to a degree, part of the terms of trade loss was self-inflicted. This legacy has remained to influence the course of coffee prices and the southern cone ever since.
Japan
As a non-industrial producer, Japan�s experience through the Great Depression is important to show how interventionist government policy led to an extremely quick economic recovery, and laid the foundation for rapid industrial growth and militarisation in the 1930s.
At the onset of the Great Depression, Japan�s main export was silk. Silk prices dropped by over 40% (Nakamura, 1998), a combination of a general softening of commodity markets and the collapse of the New York silk market. This triggered a major balance of payments crisis, which eventually resulted in the collapse of the Minseito cabinet, which had made the fateful decision to peg the yen to the gold standard, a move that further undermined Japan�s export strength.
The key turning point in Japan�s experience in the Great Depression was the collapse of the Minseito government, and the subsequent appointment of Korekiyo Takahashi as Finance Minister. Similar to the Brazil case study earlier, Takahashi implemented Keynesian economic policies more than five years before the publication of the General Theory in 1936. Nanto and Takagi (1998) summarise Takahashi�s beliefs as being centred on the philosophy that a nation�s economy is different to that of an individual�s � saving and economising increases assets, but fails to achieve national economic growth.
There were three essential parts of Takahashi�s policies, all designed to stimulate demand: currency devaluation, low interest rates and increased government expenditure. Firstly, the yen was removed from the gold standard, reducing its value by almost half (Nakamura, 1987), and resulting in an immediate stimulation of exports such that by 1933, export volume had recovered to pre-Depression levels. Secondly, the Bank of Japan�s discount rate was lowered from 6% to about 3% in less than twelve months (Nanto & Takagi, 1988). This stimulated investment in capital works, especially amongst emerging zaibatsu, which had survived the 1920s crises by economising. Thirdly, government expenditure was increased in two key areas: the military and public works. The importance of this military expenditure to Japan�s foreign policy in the 1930s was crucial � by 1932 Japan had already invaded Manchuria.
Hence, there formed a key link between the economic and the geopolitical. Until Takahashi�s death in 1936, he fought a losing battle against the army who wanted to even further increase military expenditure. By 1937, Japan was in full-scale war with China, and by 1941 it was fighting against the Allies in World War II. Japan�s imperialist military aggression on such an unprecedented scale can be traced back to Takahashi�s nationalist economic policies, mainly in moving towards an economy based significantly on militarisation.
The other key result of Takahashi�s policies was the industrialisation of the economy. Zaibatsu companies, strengthened by oligopolistic practices, took advantage on low interest rates and high military demand to expand into new industrial production with vigour. This was enhanced by government subsidisation and protection of heavy industry, a policy that was the precursor to Japan�s industrialisation under MITI after World War II.
Therefore, we can see the similarities between Japan and Brazil, as agricultural economies that used Keynesian policies in the Great Depression to recover far more quickly than most other nations, and industrialise in the 1930s.
WINNER: Tie
Used tubeless 4 a while, didn�t flat, but in the edge of tire bead and rim, muck picks up and looses air and i don�t like that. I very rarely flat, only with cactus spines, so i�d rather keep it simple and use tubes, and i run low pressure on tubes too, never flat.
Maybe for heavy riders tubeless are better, but for light racers as myself i prefer latex tubes with thick pythons.(also much easier to change during a race)
WINNER: Traditional
I've tried Stan's on a couple of different wheel/tire combinations. It's hell to mount and seat correctly. Compressor really helps mount these things. Originally tried on Mavic 221's with Panaracer Fire XCs. Had a few problems with the tire not seating and tire burping air during hard cornering and hitting sharp edges. Bike seemed to roll quicker and traction was great after things settled.
Converted a set of 317s with WTB Mutanoraptors and endo'd after hitting a rock on a downhill section. Front tire suddenly lost pressure (burped) and caused my frontend to dip,sending me over the bars. Contacted Stan directly and he stated that these particular tires won't work as well as some other brands with his goo. I converted the front back to traditional and still run Stans on the rear. So far so good.
WINNER: Tie
Well after a recent ride that i went on with ski rack sports i found ount the hard way the tubes really really suck. We were going through a section and i got a flat opps!!! It's not a big deal, one flat on a ride wont kill you. It's when you get the tube in and you go 20 feet and get another flat, is when it starts to wear on you. being nice the gorup waits and i patch a tube and i put it back in, and whammo another flat!!!!!!!!!! So then the gorup drops me and i ride back to the shop with a flat tire. Well i had one of the guys at the shop open up after hours and i stuck my bike in the shop and told him to have the bike ready with tubles tires by friday. Well on firday i picked up the bike and i have absolutly loved the freedom of not worrying aobut getting a flat. that mean more room in my camle bac for food. ummmmm food.
WINNER: Tubeless
Well after a recent ride that i went on with ski rack sports i found ount the hard way the tubes really really suck. We were going through a section and i got a flat opps!!! It's not a big deal, one flat on a ride wont kill you. It's when you get the tube in and you go 20 feet and get another flat, is when it starts to wear on you. being nice the gorup waits and i patch a tube and i put it back in, and whammo another flat!!!!!!!!!! So then the gorup drops me and i ride back to the shop with a flat tire. Well i had one of the guys at the shop open up after hours and i stuck my bike in the shop and told him to have the bike ready with tubles tires by friday. Well on firday i picked up the bike and i have absolutly loved the freedom of not worrying aobut getting a flat. that mean more room in my camle bac for food. ummmmm food.
WINNER: Tubeless
Mavic Crossmax, the best tubeless wheels around! I've been riding them for two years and have only gotten one flat. Tubeless is definitley the way to go. So much more traction and a more comfortable ride due to the lower psi that you can run. No complaints at all about tubeless.
WINNER: Tubeless
The last guy is right. The casing determines flat resistance. Any one who describes their own riding as " aggro " is either a fag, faggot, or queer-bait, take your pick.
WINNER: Tie
MMmmmm, I own a tire company, fer what that's worth, so I do understand the issue. I think puncture resistance really depends more on the tire casing that anyone realizes. I converted my Turner to Stan's (Mavic 317) and at the same time mounted new Specialized Roll X tires. The first ride I flated on a sharp rock. NP, easily install the tube I always carry. Third ride, flated on a sharp rock. "Screw this!" no more Stan's. Then I got rid of the lightweight XC rubber and installed 2.5 Wierwolfs. Stuck my neck out and mounted em tubeless with Stan's. Now two months and no flats. I ride really aggro singletrack and blast thru rock gardens. I just think the lightweight XC casings cut easier. With the right tire, tubless is an advantage.
WINNER: Tubeless
STAN'S TUBELESS SYSTEM IS THE BEST ALL AROUND SETUP - PERIOD!!!!!
WINNER: Tubeless
ahhh this is a hard decision tubelesis a hell of alot lighter but tubed stays on the rim better they both have their advantages cuz who wants to carry another whole tire when a tube is way more compact i say its a tie
WINNER: Tie
Traditional is the much cheaper, but the performance of the tubeless excells! If you have lots of dollars to burn, go on, use tubeless, but if you're an average biker, a tube tire is a wise choice. It's a TIE men!
WINNER: Tie
I've owned a set of Mavic Crossmax w/ceramic rims for 2 years and just love them. I true them about twice a year, and that's riding 3K miles a year. The downside is getting a flat. You need Herculean strength to get the tires pulled up against the rims in order to re-seat after the tire has been repaired. Since I ride year-round, I can only say that the low pressures you can run make winter riding possible.
WINNER: Tubeless
I am using Stans Tubeless.
I have never flatted with Stans and would flat 3x a month with tubes.
Wheels are now lighter.
I am running lower pressure.
I am no faster.
Tubeless lets more tire surface area contact the Earth.
You get better traction.
If you ride XC and you dont use Stan's then you are mis-informed.
Sorry!!
Stans for DH the verdict is still out because at low DH pressure the tires may burp air.
WINNER: Tubeless
I use Stans with regular mavic rims and pythons on my training wheels and bontrager tubeless rims and tubeless pythons on my racing wheels and they both rock! I've had only 2 flats in 2 years and I ride every chance I can get. They can both be a pain to set up but once done, there is no comparison. Three years ago I double flatted out of four races with tube tires. Since going tubeless I've yet to flat out of a race. Maybe I've been lucky but neither set of wheels loses air noticeably quicker than tube tires either.