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White Brothers
Hardbody Cartridge
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Submitted by
Sean Ralph
a Weekend Warrior
from Ottawa
Date Reviewed: August 8, 2000 | | Favorite Trail: | Wasssssssuppppp!!! | | Duration Product Used: | More than 3 years | | Strengths: | MAde an old fork better | | Weaknesses: | Blown seals on the cartridge kit, expensive, bottoming & Topping out | | Bike Setup: | At the time - GT Zaskar with a 95 RS Judy XC
Now - Intense Tracer with a Manitou X-Vert Super | | Bottom Line: | When I bought my 95 Judy, I was going to get a Judy DH but the shop said buy the XC and put the hardbody kit in with JUDD springs. Worked well enough for a while
Last year I took it for some hard rding in BC and Quebec - it was bottoming and topping out like a beee-otch. My shop guy tore it down and we found the springs had broken off at the top and the cartridges had blown the seals.
Bought a rebuild kit (expensive & took 4 weeks to get here) and got the mountain speed springs instead of JUDDs. Since I was waiting, I bought a new frame & fork instead. Way better & more travel.
The Judy is going back on the Zaskar - which is now the wife's bike. =)
Three flaming piles - kinda pricey, everything broke (though it took a while) and a new fork is still better than a Judy. | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
scooter bicky
a Cross Country Rider
from montana
Date Reviewed: August 1, 2000 | | Favorite Trail: | nunya | | Duration Product Used: | 2 Years | | Strengths: | makes for a smooth and very active fork with a good range of adjustment. | | Weaknesses: | blows up | | Similar Products Used: | stock cartridges | | Bike Setup: | dagger fsi | | Bottom Line: | I realy liked it while it worked. In combination with WB's heavy duty Judd springs and WB wipers my rock shock was plusher than just about anything out there. It did bottom out a little more than I would have liked, but that was a small sacrifice for the great plushness. But then it blew and I was left with the dilemna - do I pay 100 bucks for a new cartridge kit to put in a beat up three year old fork or do I buy a new fork? I opted for the latter and bought a new marzocchi atom 80 and so far I think I prefer the feel of my old fork though I have yet to realy fine tune and break-in my new one. We'll see. | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
ACS
a Cross-Country Rider
from Boston
Date Reviewed: November 5, 1999 | | Favorite Trail: |
all | | Duration Product Used: |
more than 3 years | | Strengths: |
Good Dampning Action | | Weaknesses: |
Expensive
Springs not as progressive as i would like. | | Similar Products Used: |
Stock Judy | | Bike Setup: |
Hardbody Plus and Judd Springs | | Bottom Line: | Finnaly blew the seals. We'll see how cust. service responds. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Nathan
a Racer
from Franke
Date Reviewed: July 26, 1999 | | Favorite Trail: |
Tsali, NC | | Duration Product Used: |
more than 3 years | | Strengths: |
Works slightly better than the stock Rockshox cartridge. | | Weaknesses: |
The absolute WORST customer service I have ever experienced.
First time it failed, it took six weeks for them to fix and return.
Recent leak resulted in unanswered phone messages. I ordered the $15 rebuild o-ring/seal kit and it took 8 weeks. Called nearly every week only to find out that my order hadn't gone through and it was on the way. I was told this on at least four different occasions. Finally got the kit only to find out they they didn't send everything I ordered and the kit didn't include any o-rings like the picture in their catalog showed. | | Similar Products Used: |
Englund Air Cartridge - sucks | | Bike Setup: |
Judy SL with speed springs | | Bottom Line: | Works adequately. Just hope you never have to deal with their customer service. Absolutely horid. | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Kalimero
a weekend warrior
from Sweden
Date Reviewed: July 28, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
Hardbody+ Rules!
The sorry excuse of a cartridge that was supplied with the fork brok after far to short time.
This one made a world of difference. If you have a -95/-96 Judy, and plan to keep it, get a hardbody+, it makes a whole lot of change. And no, I am not on the payrole of White Bros! | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
schwinnman
a cross-country rider
from New York
Date Reviewed: June 13, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
Like the Judd springs the Hardbody Plus cartridge recieves an equal amount of praise. Nice aluiminum body as oppossed to the Rock Shox Plastic boy which leeks oil. Nicest feature is the rebound adjustment in the leg which is easily changed with the quick turn off a 2mm allen key, and definately listen to the rebound adjustment suggestions the White Bros. supplies they were right on the money for my style of riding a nice plush feel!!!!!! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
An Nguyen
a weekend warrior
from union City
Date Reviewed: May 8, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I had the opportunity to read many reviews of different upgraded suspesion kits.
I suggest to all the warrior out there to consider the following factors before buying an upgraded suspension kit. I am an engineer
and specialized in shock and vibration controls and I would like to share some of my knowledge to mountain
bikers. I look for the following factors:
1)Performance 2)Reliability 3)Product Safety 4)Price 5)How easy installing
6)maintenance cost.
Performance: Bare Coil spring in any shape and size is an energy storage system
with little to no damping. It means the more energy you put in then the harder it will rebound and the result is the energy stored
transmitting to your arms and you will feel big shock with washboard and tiring with long distance ride. Coil spring is reliable
product but it will rough on your fork and reduce the wall thickness of your fork and later it will create safety concern on the fork's
strength. It 's better to wrap your coil spring
with some elastomer product.An Oil Damper by itself is a useless mechanism because it has no muscle to return to its original position after being compressed
that is why it has to be connected to coil spring. The performance of oil damper and coil spring connected can create a good
damping system that can absorb a big hit but it will bottom out after a series of big hits due to slowly response of oil flowing
throught valves.Oil damper is not a reliable product caused by explose of oil seal. You imagine
dropping down your bike from 4 to 5 feet height and your seal bursted due to extremly high pressure exerted on the seal then the
damping of your fork is gone then safety becomes an important factor. I suggest that with oil damper or air
damper/air spring combination you should avoid hard hits and washboard. Super Strut shows good performance, respond quickly to big hits and small hits and showed no bottom out, reliable product
because no leaking oil or air. It is simple design and required almost no maintenance and it is a safe product.
The high damping polymer bonded very well to the coil spring and control both
up and down motions.
I enjoy the performance of Super Strut and the reliability plus free maintenance and the safety of product but I do not like the price
$119. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
rick
a racer
from PA
Date Reviewed: January 16, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I have 2 Hardbody Plus cartridges, one in my M2(Judy FSX) and the other on my LTS_1 (Judy XC). Both are the 3 model. I love them !!!!!! I didn't even ride the LTS before I put the Hardbody plus in. (I have the Judd springs in both forks also)The kits give you adjustability for both rebound and dampening and just flat let you dial in the fork to match your bike and your riding style.Don't ride a plus equipped bike unless you have the $$$ to buy one because your fork will suck until you get the cartridge.The M2's cartridge will be going on it's third race season and the LTS it's second. No problems. I'm a nobody, just Joe Average racer in the Vets class.. I went to the White Bros support truck at the 7 Springs National MTB race this year and they treated me like I was John Tomac. Nice people, good support, great product !!!! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Noah Bodman
a downhiller
from NY
Date Reviewed: November 18, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
I stuck it in a long travel Judy XC and its great. If I'm jumping I'll tighten up the dampening, or if I'm doing trails I'll turn it down. Nice and easy and it works well. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Steve Douglas
a racer
from Metuchen, NJ USA
Date Reviewed: June 26, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
I got the Hardbody kit when I blew the stock Judy XC (75mm) after about 15
Hours on the bike. The shop I got the bike from was nice and gave me a 50%
discount on the Hardboy kit and they installed it for me. I did 10 or so
races on the them and few hundred miles and they worked OK. At about the 8
month point while riding in Jim Thorp PA (MTB Festival) I blew these things
big time. Oil all over the front rim! Arrgggh!. I pressed down on the front
with the front brake on and I could see the oil being squirted out of the
bottom of the shock. This was worse than the original Judy cartridge. I was
not happy about this. I just kept riding it anyway (40 total for the day)
and I didn't really notice bad performance. The shock was attached to a
Trek Y-22 and I only weight about 148lbs so I don't think that this should
have happened. I called white Bros and they don't warrantee the things
cause they have no control over how the things were installed. They said I'd
have to buy a rebuild kit. The Tech I spoke with said the the Hardbody Plus
has much better valving and is a better unit cause it doesn't use the stock
Judy internals. I am gonna look into something else before spending $130 for
that thought. | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Ken Knowles
a cross-country rider
from Boulder, CO
Date Reviewed: December 5, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
I got one of the early Judy forks with a plastic cartridge and blew it right away. I wanted reliability and so bought the White Bros. rebuild kit. I upgraded to Speed Springs at the same time. I immediately noticed that my new set-up handled both big bumps and stutters better (as I expected) but what really blew me away was that it had noticeably less dive in hard cornering. I was more than satisfied until a couple of months ago on a long, bumpy, 2000' descent my forks started topping out with a loud bang and the front end dove so hard into every turn I could barely control it. When I took the fork apart there was oil everywhere. Taking it apart and putting new oil in didn't fix it. I guess this happens, but it sure doesn't feel right. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
judyBoy
a cross-country rider
from Pawtucket, RI
Date Reviewed: August 20, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
Not to be picky but first off the picture you have of the
White Bros. Hard Body Plus as of 960826 is the Arlo
Englund Air to Air supension upgrade (oops!). I replaced
the standard Judy XC pre-aluminum factory cartridge with
the Hard Body to (1)increase travel (2)increase shock
performance.
Results:
I received from day one of installation a peculiar sensation
of not bottoming out, but topping out. Complemented the
cartridge with the Heavy Judds and even worse regardless of
what combo pre-load or dampening. TOP OUT! Hmmm... later
received a call from the bike shop stating that the White
Bros called to see how their product was doing out in the
field. They found that the cartridge delivered by White
Bros may be a first generation product that may be
poor and to warranty it. So for now I rate these as pretty
expensive duds and am awaiting the real deal. While I am
waiting, time to put back in the factory Judy cartridge.
cartridge and White Bros. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Art Hofelman
a cross-country rider
from St. Paul, MN USA
Date Reviewed: August 5, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
Replaced the MCUs in a Judy SL with red SpeedSprings and found the fork was far too active. Replaced the (third) stock Judy cartridge with the White Bros. Hardbody unit and the control improvement was immediately apparent. Much better damping in both compression and rebound. | | Overall Rating: |
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