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Submitted by
Roman Dietrich
a Cross Country Rider
from Bavaria, Germany
Date Reviewed: September 11, 2006 | | Duration Product Used: | 2 Years | | Strengths: | relatively light-weight bike, sensitive rear suspension, fast climber, really good handling on fast and/or tricky trails, easier to carry than other bikes when necessary, because of the frame geometry (in my opinion) | | Weaknesses: | Chain-Suck, but mounting small and middle Shimano chain-rings instead of the bontrager has solved this so far.
My front suspension, a Manitou SX with 80 mm travel has a very low stiffness and works not very sensitive, although another spring has been mounted already. | | Similar Products Used: | none | | Bike Setup: | Bontrager Superstock Wheels, Manitou SX fork, Cane Creek AD5 rear suspension, crank brothers smarty pedals | | Bottom Line: | Thank god, the damn chain suck problem has been solved so far by mounting the shimano chain rings. My local dealer had the idea... Thanks a lot. | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
anthony
a Cross Country Rider
from exeter NH
Date Reviewed: November 4, 2004 | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1000.00 | | Purchased At: | wheel power | | Strengths: | rear suspension and front suspension. the frame is very light. | | Weaknesses: | not enough rear or front travel for me atleast. the cane creek ad is a great shock but only i think 3 inchs of travel. the front is deacent a manitou BLACK elite | | Similar Products Used: | specialized hardrock comp... my new bike a GAry fisher sugar 3+ | | Bike Setup: | stock but im ading some avid bb5's to it | | Bottom Line: | ive only had it 1 week. I havent hit any nice trails yet because it' s gonna be winter soon. im going to loon mount to go on the back trails. gonna through some studded tires on her. the stock back country tires are great one review said there dangerouse but i love them. if u have the cash and want a great ride get this. if ur poor like me go with a hardrock. i got this because it was 50percent off stock price. whick still caused me 700 bucks. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
karl
a Weekend Warrior
from WA state
Date Reviewed: May 17, 2004 | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1000.00 | | Purchased At: | supergo | | Strengths: | weight, comfort, handling | | Similar Products Used: | Had the 2000 sugar 3 and broke the frame. Now have the 2002 3+ and it's been very durable (so far) | | Bike Setup: | Stock except the addition of avid mechanicals and stan's no tubes | | Bottom Line: | Great bike in all aspects except flex in the seat stay arms. This caused very poor braking performance on the rear v brake. After endless adjustments I eventually had to switch to avid mechanical discs to remedy the problem. Great bike if you have disc, if not you’re missing out. I highly recommend getting rid of V brakes on this bike because you’ll never get the performance you want with the flex in the seat stay arms. Also, don’t try a v brake booster – it will ram up against the frame when the rear shock is activated and put a nice ding in your frame. Avid mechanicals – get them. They make a very good bike great.
| | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Craig
a Weekend Warrior
from PDX, OR USA
Date Reviewed: March 20, 2004 | | Favorite Trail: | Rim Trail | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$980.00 | | Purchased At: | River City | | Strengths: | Very solid, yet comfortable frame. Most comfortable bike I test rode. Not much "bob" when climbing. Seat is awesome. | | Weaknesses: | Manitu shock isn't my favorite
Wish The rear suspension travel adjustment was easier to use. | | Similar Products Used: | Old Proflex, Stumpjumper, | | Bike Setup: | Stock, with better rear gears for better Granny gear, Crank Bros. Mallet C's. | | Bottom Line: | Sure I've only had this bike for several months, but so far I love it. I'm still getting used to it, but I'm stoked so far. Heading to Moab next month, and expecting nothing but the best. I'll report back if bike doesn't hold up. I got a sweet deal, conidering bike is 2 years old.
Changes I'll make, I'd like to add hydraulic Disks some say, but the V's will get me by. I'd also like to put a stable platform rear shock on some time. I'll eventually go with a Marzocchi front fork as well, but all in due time.
I have not yet had ANY of the chain suck issues. I was very gun shy about buying this bike, but I couldn't pass it up, especially considering it fit "me" the best of the bikes I was riding, and the awesome price. Why pay $600 more for a bike that didn't feel as good. I did make sure that my bike was aligned right with the string test, and my bike was PERFECT. I got assurances from RCB (salesmen, floor managers, etc.) that my bike would not have those problems, and that they've all been fixed. They've put the Rep. on the line, and so far they are right. I think some of the chain suck issues are because people don't know how to use their front rings correctly. Time will tell I guess.
I would highly recommend this bike. Bang for your buck, you just can't beat it. It's so nice and solid compared to the Stumpy and my old Pro-flex. It doesn't "rattle" around, and doesn't stretch my body out so much like the other two I have experience with.
5 FLAMERS for this puppy on value, and the ride. Totally comfortable on this bike, and I'm making climbs I've never made before. Buy this if $2000 for a bike makes you sick, yet you want to hang with those who have paid too much! You'll love the fact that you can still afford the beer after the ride!
| | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Al
a Cross Country Rider
from Alexander,ME,USA
Date Reviewed: September 9, 2003 | | Duration Product Used: | 2 Years | | Bottom Line: | Purchased a 2000 model in Spring 2001 on sale from Bar Harbor Bicycle in Ellsworth,Maine. Extra long Thomson seat post and stem were used on XL frame to accomodate my 6'8"/200 pound body. The Sugar geometry is especially good for tall folks. After 2 years and @ 2000 miles of trouble free cross country riding on very rough and wild trails through bear and moose territory, I noticed an unfamiliar clunking sound as I went over bumps. Upon close inspection I noticed that the weld at the base of the down tube was completely broken through. The sound was caused by the frame tubes banging into each other! The odd thing is that the bike still rode just fine for the 15 mile trip home. I took it back to my nearest local bike shop, Bar Harbor Bicycle, about 100 miles away. Within 3 weeks they moved all my original components over to a brand new 2004 Sugar 3+ painted up at the factory just for me with Sybil link and Fox Float shock all covered under warranty! I didn't think it could be possible, but I like the ride even more than the original. As for chain suck and shifting problems mentioned by others on this site, I've only had problems a couple of times when the drive train got way too dirty. Maybe those complaints were legit, but regular meticulous cleaning and lubing of the drive train may be all that's needed in many cases. From my experience, it's a great bike backed by a great warranty. Bar Harbor Bicycle was most helpful too. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Chris
a Cross Country Rider
from S. Cal
Date Reviewed: September 4, 2003 | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$999.00 | | Purchased At: | Jax | | Strengths: | Climbing ability, both suspensions work great, components are generally good. price. | | Weaknesses: | Not the smoothest shifting experience I had, but not as bad as others complain. It does have some problem thought. Brake set can be better in this price range.
CHANGE THE BACKCOUNTRY TIRE! DANGEROUS! | | Similar Products Used: | Blur (nice), Jeykl and Fuel, many hardtails. | | Bike Setup: | stock except Titec Flat Tracker bar, carbon barend. Avid SD-7 brakes. swap the BAD-country FRONT TIRE after injury. | | Bottom Line: | Well worth the money I spent ($999 including tax), instead of buying from eBay, I got it from LBS to make sure the chain suck problem can be dealt with. But so far not too bad, some trail adjustment is needed for the chain did flop around some times. Take some time to adjust to long geometry cockpit, and change the damn front tire - which I should have been done earlier - try to save money and got myself hurt.
Bottom line: switch from hardtail, this bike surprised me with it's climbing ability (no bob), downhill is very plush as well. I love it and will like to grow with it. | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Josh
a Cross Country Rider
from CT
Date Reviewed: August 30, 2003 | | Favorite Trail: | tight singletrail | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1450.00 | | Strengths: | everything | | Weaknesses: | chainsuck | | Similar Products Used: | giant nrs1, trek fuel | | Bike Setup: | stock | | Bottom Line: | I bought this bike a couple months ago and love riding it. I bike about 5 days a week of hard trailriding and this bike has done everything i wanted from it. It climbs like a fiend, absords 4-5 footers smoothly and its light enough to race (occassionally). I weigh about 130 lbs and have never bottomed out either shock. The only problems i've had so far with the bike is the damn chainsuck. I'm not quite sure how to get rid of it and the guys at the shop wont help me out so i'm stuck. Also the stock tires blow. I had to throw on the old Panaracer firexcpro and conti vert in order to hold onto any fast carving turn or climb. The black elite absorbs everything and the cane creek shock has no pedal-bob.
All in all the bike is perfect for those who just love to go into the trail and just fool around, doin nasty climbs or nasty drops or just plain rippin up the singletrack. I only gave it three chili's on value though cause i still think all bikes cost way too much. | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Thom
a Cross Country Rider
from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date Reviewed: July 15, 2003 | | Favorite Trail: | Camp Fortune | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | Tommy Lefebvre | | Strengths: | light cushy bike that climbs great. | | Weaknesses: | Riser bar (oh well) and chain suck | | Similar Products Used: | Norca hardtail, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp | | Bike Setup: | off-the rack + cut down the bars and added some stubby bar ends, | | Bottom Line: |
It rides like a dream, climbs great, shifting is smooth and the brakes are exceptionally dependable. This is the second time it's been in the shop to have a chain ring replaced due to chain suck which has been a bit of an issue. (It hasn't happened much but when it does it's a pisser!) The store's service has been great and is currently replacing the crank and chain rings to Shimano LX (which the rep says should solve the issue). I took the opportunity to take out a demo bike, a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp with Shimano Disk brakes. The dimensions of the bikes feel like something between the Sugar and a downhill bike. It handled great on the downhills and the brakes were not significantly different than the Hayes hydrolics. It bobbed on the straightways, felt like my weight was all on the back tire and climbing was exactly what I had feared all softails would climb like. The sugar is definitely a cross country bike. I would hate to take anything else through a technical singletrack. I would have rated this a four due to the chainsuck, but having tried another comparable bike I'm convinced that the overall performance rates a five. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Matt
a Cross Country Rider
from Lakeside, CA
Date Reviewed: June 21, 2003 | | Favorite Trail: | Sycamore Canyon | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | Supergo | | Strengths: | Genesis geometry puts your butt farther back on the frame. Makes climing and drop-offs much more manageable. Tight frame. Excelent control. Rear shock and fork adjustment is a serious plus. Easily change this bike from a racing XC setup to free-ride. b*link technology makes for a very smooth rear suspension ride. No problems with "bobbing" up hills. | | Weaknesses: | Been riding over a year - no problems encountered. | | Similar Products Used: | Mongoose full suspension (cheap) | | Bike Setup: | All XT accross the board. Exceptions: Avid SD5 brakes (XT shifters); Bontrager handlebar, Bontrager weelset; WTB Laser V seat; WTB Veloci Raptor tires; Manitou Black Elite fork | | Bottom Line: | I think I'm one of the few who has never experienced chain suck. I asked Supergo to replace bottom bracket and crankset prior to purchase to cover this. Called Fisher who told me the problem was solved mid 2002. Bike is a smooth ride. Suspension is perfect - no bobbing, rear shock compresses when it should, and stays pretty stable otherwise. Word of caution: unless you are hitting some nice sized jumps, keep your fork set to 80mm. Excelent bike for any XC rider. See lots of them out there, no complaints from any other riders. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Alex Galipeault
a Weekend Warrior
from Toronto, Canada
Date Reviewed: May 26, 2003 | | Favorite Trail: | Mont Ste-Anne Resort | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1200.00 | | Purchased At: | CyclePath | | Strengths: | The best thing about this bike is definetly the price, $1600.00 CAD, it`s a steal! Tires are very soft and give excellent grip. I love the rear shock. It does it`s job well and is easy to maintain. To mya amazement, it`s a very good climber (Stay on the seat!) The 100mm fork and 4.1 inches set up at the back is awesome. It`s a mix between x-country (55%) and all-mountain bike (45%). The seat`s comfy too. | | Weaknesses: | Chainsuck, just like everybody else! I am 210lbs and the Manitou Black fork is way too soft, I`ve hit bottom already many times. Stickers make the bike look cheap. Paint would have been more appropriate for a bike like this. | | Similar Products Used: | 2002 Specialized Enduro series. | | Bike Setup: | Outta the box, no disc brakes. (Get`em if you`ve got the dought) | | Bottom Line: | This bike is good for you if:
1) You`re a weekend worrior
2) You like to race from time to time for your own pleasure
3) You ride mostly x-country trails w some light freeride/dwnhill.
4) you want a no-nonsense bike
5) you want an easy to use FS.
Needless to say that after reading about the chainsuck, I was praying that maybe, oh maybe I was a lucky GF bike owner that would never have to deal w this problem but let me tell you that the first time it happens, man it SUCKS! If you can, try to get it fixed at your LBS before you take it out of the shop. I have to recommmend that anyone over 200lbs who buys this bike get a the Manitou spring inside changed right away to a stiffer spring.
Other then that the bike rides awesome and I love it! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jerk-O
a Cross Country Rider
from Houston TX
Date Reviewed: May 4, 2003 | | Favorite Trail: | Knobyhill Ranch | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1400.00 | | Purchased At: | Valley | | Strengths: | Great frame geometry. nice set up with the duke u-turn and fox vinella r in the rear. lighter than most full suspencion for the price, handles great around tight stuff. adjustible travel all around is the way to go, great everywhere i have gond riding. | | Weaknesses: | bottom out w/ the duke so chenged to stiffer springs. took a little while to set up just right. dont like the crow bars so switched to a flat. seat is a little on the hard side for a boneyass like mine | | Similar Products Used: | trek fuel 90, trek 6000, schwin moab | | Bike Setup: | 55 psi in tires, 110psi in rear shock, 90mm travel in front. changed out a bunch of stuff just b/c i had extra money after i got my tax return. bontreger race wheels, xtr, xtr, xt, fsa crank and bottom bracket, fsa headset, avid 5 v-brakes, easton seat post, besides that orginal. (yes i should have just bought the 2+ or the team issue, but hey thats what you get for riding on a budget half the time) | | Bottom Line: | Great ride. it took me a while to get used to riding a full suspension on the trail but once i got it set for my weight works great. i really like the way it handles around tight stuff and how is takes control on downhill sections, the adjustible travel in the front and rear: great. kudos to rock shox w/ the u-turn, defently gettin a pyslo for my dirt jumper. i like the way this bike is comfortable in all conditoins, anything from xc, small downhill, and urban assult. if it gets a little bigger just switch to the 4" of travel in the rear and 108mm in the front. if your riding around where conditions change or you just want to switch it up and take bigger hits that are on the trail defently get this bike. it will take the abuse you throw at it and then some. dont get it if you want a super light full suspension, go ahead and get a carbon.
defently worth the money, only giving it 4 all around b/c i cant remember how it road before all changes. now it is defently worth a 5 after a grand and a half spent on lighter stuff | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Casey
a Weekend Warrior
from Seattle, WA
Date Reviewed: March 26, 2003 | | Favorite Trail: | Tiger Mountain, North Shore | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1400.00 | | Purchased At: | Montlake Bicycles | | Strengths: | Love the solid feel of the bike, much better than my old Specialized Rockhopper cheapie front susp, love the plush rear shock feel on the full-susp. Great recovery manners for when you screw something up in a technical section. | | Weaknesses: | Cane Creek shock blew on me on my first ride, had to have warrantied, took two weeks. I had the bad bad chainsuck issue happen to me, but the shop had a service bulletin with some replacement parts - and the suck is all but gone now.. it has improved significantly, and I didn't need a new frame. I just hate having to repair my bike twice in teh first month! | | Similar Products Used: | Specialized Rockhopper Front Susp. | | Bike Setup: | stock, with Wellgo pedals (love my flats!) | | Bottom Line: | Bottom line is that this is a great quality bike, at the best price you will be able to find. There is just no other bike in this price range which will deliver a high quality full-suspension bike, which is great for XC riding. I'll give it 4 chillis all-around because I would reco this bike to anyone, just make sure you get those two issues taken care of which I had. Thumb's up to Montlake Bicycles for handling my issues with class. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Reed
a Weekend Warrior
from Southlake
Date Reviewed: February 1, 2003 | | Favorite Trail: | North Shore, Grapevine | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$850.00 | | Purchased At: | ebay | | Strengths: | Very impressed. The bike rides great in total stock form. Will probably switch up too XTR soon, and maybe eggbeaters. otherwise keep stock | | Weaknesses: | pedals are too sticky, but can adjust. egg beaters would have been a nice choice. Takes a while to get the rear derail adjusted just right. | | Similar Products Used: | Mongoose Son of Newman | | Bike Setup: | Stock, 35psi tires IRC backcountry, 180 psi in rear shook, front fork 80mm setting nice and stiff. | | Bottom Line: | Great bike, good value used. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jerrid
a Weekend Warrior
from Great Falls
Date Reviewed: December 28, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | Garry Fisher bike dealer | | Strengths: | Has little or no bob when set up properly. | | Weaknesses: | When this line first came out in 2002 it had problems due to warping in the frames during manufacturing. Garry Fisher took some time in figuring this out and replaced my frame. The new frames no longer have this problem because they changed the way they make it so it wont warp. | | Similar Products Used: | GT RTS | | Bike Setup: | Mine has a XT Crank and XT brakes otherwise original. | | Bottom Line: | If you are having chain suck problems contact Gary Fisher for a new frame. My new frame has had no problems what so ever. I know when before I bought my bike I looked at the reviews on here and noticed alot of problems with the chain suck however I liked the bike. I am glad I purchased one. Gary Fisher stood behind this bike in all ways. I had no out of pocket expense. Just had to deal with the problems until they realized what was going wrong. This is a great bike. If you get a 2003 it should be perfect as far as the frame goes. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Michael Top
a Cross Country Rider
from The Hague, (the Netherlands)
Date Reviewed: December 22, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Grand Raid Cristalp (Switserland) | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$2600.00 | | Purchased At: | Mark de Bruin (the Netherlands) | | Strengths: | Light. efficient in climbing, doesn't absorb all the energy but gives it to the wheels. No extra pivots.
| | Weaknesses: | The bikes that are costomized have a poor setup, with Bontrager stuff that's quite heavy, but I didn't buy a costomized version. | | Similar Products Used: | This is my first (and probably last) ful-suspension that I bought. | | Bike Setup: | Full XTR, Full Ritchey WCS components, Cane Creek AD5, Marzocchi vork, Mavic Crossmax XL UST Disc, Hutchinson Python 26x2.0 Tubeless, Magura Louise hydraulic discbrakes. Oh I love this bike to death.
| | Bottom Line: | The Sugar is not a real full-suspension bike. It's a hardtail xc bike with all the benefits of a full-suspension bike. That's why I chose this bike in the first place. I'm a marathon rider and I like hardtail bikes, but I want a bike wich I can ride for more than 8 ours in a row. The Sugar has that extra comfort and you don't have to pay that back in weight, because the Sugar is very light for a full-suspension.
I would recommend this bike to the hardcore xc racers (make it lighter than light with other components and you have the ultimate weapon for short xc races) and I would recommend it to marathon riders like me, because it gives you that littlebit of extra comfort that a hardtail bike doesn't have. Add the Genisis Geometry wich gives you the ultimate position on a bike (more traction, better decending) and there's the bottom line: THE PERFECT FULL-SUSPENSION
| | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Ben Phillips
a Cross Country Rider
from Bethel, ME
Date Reviewed: December 21, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Fort Rock in Exeter, NH | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1700.00 | | Purchased At: | Wheel Power Bicycles | | Strengths: | Great all around bike, solid handling, and even in 4 inch travel setting the bob is very minimal. | | Weaknesses: | The choice in stock components were not my favorite, but thats strickly personal preference, other than that I loved it! | | Similar Products Used: | Trek Fuel | | Bike Setup: | I'm not a huge fan of Bontrager and Cane Creak, and the Hayes Comp Discs were not my favorite, but I was planning on upgrading the components anyway so that wasn't anything I wasn't expecting. | | Bottom Line: | I can't think of a better bike for XC riding and racing for 1700 dollars! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John V
a
from Ellicott City, Maryland
Date Reviewed: December 16, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1300.00 | | Purchased At: | Sun and Ski Sports | | Strengths: | Its light, fast, and can take a beating. The IRC BackCountrys can ride over anything (glass, sharp rocks, ect.)without going flat. | | Weaknesses: | I blew out the rebound on the Cane Creek AD 5 but other than that it is the best bike I've ever riden. Try to get a good warnty from the store you buy it from, it saved me $250. | | Similar Products Used: | None all my old bikes were not up to my riding style- Carrar gt, Treck 800 | | Bike Setup: | Cane Creek Cloud 9, Avid mechancial disc breaks, AtomicLabs TrailPimps w/ XT hubs, 2002 Blacks, XT front and rear derailers | | Bottom Line: | I love this bike. After going throught 3 cheep bikes each lasting me a year, my Sugar is a big improvement in all catagories (well only if it was less exsapive than my old bikes). The IRC Backcountries ware down fast, so I'd get a longer lasting pair after they do. If you don't want to spend over $1500 and are looking for a great all-a-round bike then the Sugar 3 is for you. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Scott Vogel
a Cross Country Rider
from Jackson, MI
Date Reviewed: December 11, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | The Poto, Highland | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1200.00 | | Purchased At: | Two Wheel Tango | | Strengths: | Braking, handling, climbing, comfort. Price. | | Weaknesses: | Changing set-up upon purchase. AD-5 shock. | | Similar Products Used: | Been riding a Trek 990/970 since '94. Tested a NRS1 & 3, Specialized Epic | | Bike Setup: | Stock Sugar 3+ Disc except for initial changes (listed below) and Panaracer Fire XC Pro tires. | | Bottom Line: | I reviewed the Sugar on this site before purchasing and was alerted to the drivetrain problems. I inquired about the chain suck problem at the bike shop and they were aware of it. Initially they were going to just change out the chain rings. Instead they changed the 115mm BB to a 110mm and the Bontrager cranks to LX. I have ridden the bike hard on several two hour rides with extensive shifting patterns and have yet to experience any hint of chain suck.
I don't like the limitation of the AD-5 but the LBS has ordered a kit to change the rebound. They have changed the stem form a 90mm to a 110mm and will be changing the handlebars to a slightly higher and angled bar. The guys at Two Wheel Tango (specifically James and Dennis) are great. They are making sure the bike fits the way I like and it performs flawlessly.
The bike handles great! I love the disc brakes. It climbs great, doesn't bob, and now that I've changed the tires, it corners great. The Crane Creek manual gives a wrong psi setting however. Once I lowered that, the bike absorbs the rocks, roots, and ruts like a pillow.
I have to give credit to my satisfaction, in part, to the poor souls that have endured problems with design and manufacturing previous listed on this site. They alerted me to the problems and I commend the owner of the Two Wheel Tango bike shop (Dennis) and James the excellent technician for their customer service. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
ryan
a Cross Country Rider
from kansas
Date Reviewed: December 10, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1100.00 | | Purchased At: | local store | | Strengths: | by far the best bike i've ever ridden | | Weaknesses: | no quick release seat,no fox rear shock | | Similar Products Used: | cannondale giant specialized | | Bottom Line: | i'm 6'2 175lbs and the med sugar fits me like a glove. my sugar took a drop of the back of my car going about 85mph in moab and the only thing i had to replace was the seat, grips and 1 inner tube. it was scratched to hell but every thing still worked perfect. a great climber, very light and its just a great ride. keep your drive train clean to avoid chain suck though. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John Buchanan
a Weekend Warrior
from Bristol.UK
Date Reviewed: November 27, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | the old 9 feet trail, South Wales | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$2000.00 | | Purchased At: | Wheelies | | Strengths: | Lightweight. Versatile. | | Weaknesses: | Frame alignment. If you have the V brake model it's very expensive to upgrade to disc.( Will Santa please bring me a Hope front disc) | | Similar Products Used: | Sugar 3 (2001) stolen (Bugger) | | Bike Setup: | LX chainset. XT b/b. AD12 rear shock. Crank Creak headset. Hellbent XC riser bars. FirePro XC 2.1 folding tyres. | | Bottom Line: | This is my second review, and after 11 months I have at last my replacement frame. Like many many others here I too had a bottom bracket welded on pissed. Since the new frame I have had no chain-suck and it feels like at last I have the bike I wanted. Pity it took 11 months and that Trek UK were / still are unaware of the number of problems buyers have had worldwide. Gary - stop mincing around with dying your beard and 29ers and sort out the bikes you’ve already produced. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Craig S. lilyquist
a Cross Country Rider
from Coeur d'Alene, ID. USA
Date Reviewed: November 26, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Beacon Hill, Spokane, WA. | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1700.00 | | Purchased At: | Two Wheel Transit, Spokane, WA. | | Strengths: | Great climber with almost no bob.
Down hill is excellent. No more sore back!
Fit is superb! The Hayes discs feather well and stop on a dime. WTB saddle is excellent. Overall cross country handling is phenomenal! | | Weaknesses: | A little heavy, but then I just sold my Homegrown Pro hardtail for the ride of the Gary Fisher. | | Similar Products Used: | Giant NSR1 & 2 | | Bike Setup: | Stock from shop. | | Bottom Line: | I did a lot of research on the Gary Fsher Sugar 3+ before I purchased one. I heard about the chain suck problem and the mis-aligned frame. I talked to the guys at Two Wheel Transit in Spokane where I finally bought the bike. They knew about the frame and chain suck issues. They checked the bike over thoroughly. The frame and bottom bracket were spot on. Not one millimeter off so I bought the bike and off I went. During the first ride I had some shifting problems which were taken care of with a few derailleur adjustments. The second ride brought some shifting problems wth one chain suck. I returned the bike to the shop. They were great! They changed the middle chain ring and did a few more adjustments to the front derailleur. I had to make a few more on the trial adjustments to both derailleurs. I have ridden the bike dozens of times since with many tough climbs and downhills. It has worked flawlessly! I absolutely love the bike and can't wait to get on it every chance I can. The Gary Fisher lives up to it's reputation and I encourage everyone to ride one. It's a phenomenal cross counbtry ride! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Matt Hamilton
a Weekend Warrior
from West Hartford, CT
Date Reviewed: November 26, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Blue | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1100.00 | | Purchased At: | The Bike Bhop, Manchester | | Strengths: | Frame design (climbing ability), fork, dreailuers, shock after break-in | | Weaknesses: | Not sure as I changed alot of the stock parts & have had NO Problems at all | | Similar Products Used: | Klien hardtail, Giant | | Bike Setup: | XT crankset & splined BB, Thompson post & stem, answer bars Mavic disks, Deore /mavic wheelset (HEAVY WHEELSET!!!!) egg-beaters. | | Bottom Line: | I absolutely love this bike. It climbs more like my old hardtail than a d/s. I must admit it's not as plush in the real nasty stuff (especially at first) as my old giant but the overall is much better. I also never encountered any of the problems as the people below, but I changed many of the parts before I ever road it. The LX shifters and front derailuer work everybit as well as my old XT stuff. My stem is a 110, stock was 90 & the post is straight so I am slightly more forward (it seems more centered to me) than stock so that probably helps further with the climbing, but probably takes away some rear end smoothness, which by the way graetly improves after 70 or so miles. I thought I was going to have to upgrade the AD-5 shock but it is getting better with use. Mine was a late 2002 so frame problems were not an issue - shop guy had problems with the early models but they are now perfect - BUY IT YOU'LL LIKE!!!!! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Johnny
a Cross Country Rider
from Oregon, USA
Date Reviewed: November 14, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Stressa, Italy | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1600.00 | | Strengths: | does everything. LIGHT!!!! manitou black is excelent!! no bob if youre in the right gear. perfect geometry. what more can i say...even tough i wrote more about the weaknesses, this is an EXCELENT bike!! | | Weaknesses: | Way too many squeaks and creaks coming from the frame, first i thought it was BB but im sure it was the frame. Some reviews say they got a new frame becuase of alignment, could that have been causing squeaks? the Cane Creek AD-5 kinda sucked, rebound control woulda been nice(the 2+ has that), felt like i was getting pushed off sometimes. the Single Digit-3 sucked! had to replace them with the 5s because i kept(3 times) breaking the pin that sticks into the frame. tires sucked, when you corner hard on cement they make a popping sound like the bead is pulling out of the rim! Chainsuck is a major issue, chain took huge chunks out of the soft alu welds on the chainstay!! absoulutly horible, had to keep the front derailer as far out as possible then it rubbed. | | Similar Products Used: | 2001 Specialized Stumpjumper | | Bike Setup: | stock except, shorter stem, avid 5s not 3s, Panaracer Fire XCPro(great! last forever) | | Bottom Line: | just had this bike ripped off! looking at the 2003 as replacement but the squeaky frame and chainsuck of '02 concern me.
is the '03 frame identical to '02?
it seems like most people who switch BB and cranksets go to shimano XT, whats the difference? the BB is shorter but it seems like the ratios of the gears are the same as the bontrager, so what is the improvement? what about using a RaceFace Prodigy(lighter, nicer)or similar? please email if you know or if you know if any thing is solved for 2003, thanks.
dont think you need one bike for the road, XC, downhill, cyclocross, etc. This one does it all! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Josh Greenberg
a Cross Country Rider
from Ontario, Canada
Date Reviewed: November 4, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | 3 Stage - Collingwood | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1000.00 | | Purchased At: | local shop | | Strengths: | geometry, suspension (manitou black) | | Weaknesses: | most stock parts - WTB saddle, avid brakes, wheelset | | Bike Setup: | stock shimano mix | | Bottom Line: | OK, the geometry on this bike is great. Having come from a long line of steel hardtails (GT Zaskar, Kona Kula, Kona Explosif, Kona Hot), I was extremely skeptical of the jump to full suspension but went into this relationship with an open mind. What most surprised me was how well this bike handles, especially on climbs. It descends really fast too, and is impressively responsive through tighter lines of singletrack. The aesthetics are nice enough, though a slimmer set of tires and saddle would have enhanced the looks. Main aesthetic drawbacks were the lame size and made-in-the-USA stickers that didn't come off without a fight. That, and the Manitou black stickers which fell off after three rides. The biggest functional problems are the weight and most of the stock parts. The rear suspension isn't overly active if you keep on top of the psi, but two rides and no top-up and the bike feels like a lazy boy. The saddle (WTB Laser V) blows and the avid brakes are way too mushy (my biggest complaint)!! I don't think that discs are necessary, but XT/XTR v-brakes work plenty better. The Bontrager Select wheelset will likely never pop but I'd trade the weight for reduced long-term durability (but, then again, I'm not a very heavy guy). The stock rubber (2.25 nylon bead) works really well on rockier terrain, but is a bit too excessive for average conditions. This bike was an insurance replacement on a Kona Hot that was full XTR and very very responsive. I miss it and this bike doesn't make me feel any better!! But, the old steed was twice the price and I was able to invest plenty more into a solid racer for the road and to upgrade my wife's mtb. To sum up, this is plenty of bike for the price and well worth it, provided you don't pay full MSRP. Unlike other reviewers, I've not had any problems with chainsuck, busted cogs, phantom shifting, etc. I'm a mid-sized rider (160 lbs) so I'm not terribly heavy on parts and never (ever) shift under load. This bike is highly recommended to those who want a nice all-around ride that won't break the bank. Plan on a few upgrades almost immediately (brakes, tires, saddle) but after that you can replace as needed and disperse the pain on the pocketbook. This bike is not recommended for racer types (you'll find the weight disturbing and inefficiency on the flatter parts of race courses, when time is of the essence, will bug you). | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Chris
a Cross Country Rider
from Santa Clara, CA
Date Reviewed: October 22, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | El Corte De Madera | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | Pacific Bicycle | | Strengths: | Genesis Geometry, Manitou Black fork, adjustability | | Weaknesses: | Week component offering | | Bike Setup: | Thomson stem, Easton monkey lite lo-riser bars, XT cassette, Panaracer Trailblaster 2.1 | | Bottom Line: | Like a number of you I have had the phantom shifting, and the ever painful chainsuck. This has taken chunks out of the frame, bent the derailer hanger and broke my chain. I even bent one of the cogs on my cassette. All of this and I only weigh 155 pounds so I am not a putting a pounding on the bike. However, I am in the process of getting a new frame, my LBS was able to get Gary Fisher to replace the entire frame due to the frame being out of alignment. It is dissapointing that Trek would allow such defects to leave the warehouse and cause such problems for their customers. Overall the ride of the bike has been pretty good. Dump the IRC backcountry tires, as soon as I did the ride was noticible better and I had more confidence with the handling. The Manitou fork is ultra plush in the 100mm setting but extra stiff in the 80. In either travel setting for the rear the bob is minimal especially in the 2.8 setting. Coupled with the longer top tube the bike is an excellent and efficient climber. It is too bad that Trek and Gary Fisher have tarnished thier name by such poor manufacturing practices. I give it four flaming turds for value, it would be higher if the bike came with less Bontrager stuff. 3 Flaming turds for overall, the ride is great but with major chain suck I have doing more walking with my bike than I like. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
john
a
from jacksonville
Date Reviewed: October 21, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Strengths: | quality components/good value compared to competitors/frame geo. | | Weaknesses: | inability to speak directly to garyfisher rep. | | Similar Products Used: | jekyll600, Fisher paragon, Mongoose | | Bike Setup: | stock | | Bottom Line: | I was aware of crank issues w/ 2002 model and tried to upgrade to XT crank/BB but LBS said Fisher rep states no problems w/ 2003 and if problems occur they will upgrade free. The bike is absolutely awesome and makes me a faster/safer trail rider. I never thought I would spend $1400 on a bike and still feel like it was a bargain! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Pete
a Racer
from Plattsburgh, Ny
Date Reviewed: September 27, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Stillwell | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1250.00 | | Purchased At: | Brands (lbs) | | Strengths: | Climbs well, decends well, comfortable | | Weaknesses: | none, have had the bike for 8 months and have not hand any chainsuck problems. | | Bike Setup: | Swapped out the Bonty wheels and 3 digit brakes for mavic 317s wrapped around xt disc hubs and avid mech disc brakes | | Bottom Line: | Ive had this bike since february and havnt had any chainsuck problems at all. It shifts well and for the price is a great fs climber. I was reading one of the reviews and they stated that alot of the chainsuck problems were happening when shifting from 1 1 to 2 1, I dont know what would posess someone to shift from 1 1 (what ungodly section of trail are you riding up anyway that your actualy in 1 1) to 2 1. Couldnt you atleast put it into 1 3 or something before you slammed it into the middle ring? | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Greg Walker
a Weekend Warrior
from San Antonio, TX 78232
Date Reviewed: September 19, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Rim Trail, Cloudcroft | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1359.00 | | Purchased At: | Bike World | | Strengths: | 2003 Sugar 3+
Beautiful bike and very nice ride on rocky terrain. | | Weaknesses: | Avid brakes, single-digit a bit on the low end. | | Similar Products Used: | Fisher Paragon hardtail. | | Bike Setup: | Duke front fork 63mm to 108mm.
Fax Float R series rear. | | Bottom Line: | Handles beautiful the first time out, No shifting problems or handling problems. Climbs are slighter tougher than my hardtail but speed is made up on rough courses by the comfortable ride. I am 185 lbs. and set the foax float at 95psi and the Duke XC at 90mm. Great value for the money. My Paragon is all Shimano XTR but the XT and LX stuff is working rather well. Don't know how I rode the past 2 years in the Texas hill country without this bike. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Larry Sherman
a Weekend Warrior
from Greenfield, MA USA
Date Reviewed: September 17, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Conway State Forest | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1650.00 | | Purchased At: | Bicycles Unlimited | | Strengths: | Hayes Brakes, Shimano Group, Front Shock | | Weaknesses: | Occasional shifting irregularities | | Similar Products Used: | Tried K2 Razorback | | Bike Setup: | Stock 2002 model, may have a different Bottom Bracket? | | Bottom Line: | This is my first real mtn bike (with suspension). I'm 33, about 180 lbs, and ride mostly single track and fire roads in Western MA. I did a lot of research before choosing this bike, including reading all of the posts here.
After a few rides I did have a couple of strange chain suck occurances, but nothing too dramatic. It was without warning and did mar the paint between the chainrings and chainstay. Each time I had to gently finese the chain back onto the ring then allow it to pull itself free and back into action.
Later in the season I also had "phantom shifting" issues, but they usually cleared up with a few adjustments to the shifters so I'm assuming this was normal cable stretching. This is still a concern for me, but for now it's shifting normally again, and my LBS is working with me on the issue.
I think that this bike is otherwise excellent. The front shock (M.Black) handles great without bottoming out, and has all the latest adjustments (except lockout). The rear shock (C.Creek) handles the big bumps without bobbing during normal riding and climbing (I keep the air pressure kinda high so the ride isn't as "plush" as when I test rode it). I have no interest in updating these components.
The Hayes disc breaks are amazing. I couldn't be happier with the stopping power, although occasionally they make noise like a locomotive trying to stop.
I think the best part is the bike's geometry, after all, that's why I chose the Sugar in the first place. It's easy to keep control on nasty descents, and although I have plently of new Mtn Biking scars none of them are from endoing.
What would I change if I could? Maybe I'd upgrade to XT shifters or cranks, but not because I have to. I still think the 3+ was a good value for the specs, brakes, and design. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Rick
a Weekend Warrior
from Tampa, FL
Date Reviewed: September 16, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Carter Road | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1650.00 | | Purchased At: | Bicycle Outfitters | | Strengths: | nice price, light, good stock components | | Weaknesses: | none I can find | | Similar Products Used: | none, first full suspension bike | | Bike Setup: | stock except seat and pedals | | Bottom Line: | Had a problem with chain suck on first frame, LBS confirmed with GF the bottom bracket was off. GF swapped it out, haven't had it since. Admittedly, I was a bit worried the first few weeks, I did not like walking back after the first serious chain suck with the old frame. Since then I've done a few endos, ride in the mud and sand all the time and went swimming with it once. No problems to report. Bottom line: I'd recommend this bike to anyone, it'd a pleasure to ride and a great value. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Ted
a Cross Country Rider
from canada
Date Reviewed: September 15, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Strengths: | The geometry on this bike is amazing! It climbs well and handles great. It gives me confidence to try things that I would not have considered trying on my old hardtail. | | Weaknesses: | Well the problems on this bike never stop!!!! Ghost shifting, my hays breaks didn't work, my front fork leaked oil all over the place, chain suck once in a while, the rear shock sucks! I have the special upgrade kit that you can buy and it still looses air and when you unscrew the pump thepart on the shock the you screw the pump onto unscrews!!! I am selling this bike and getting a specialized, kona or rocky mountain! Bontager cranks and rings suck! | | Similar Products Used: | Kona cinder cone, Gt avalanche LE | | Bike Setup: | stock | | Bottom Line: | Don't buy this bike. If you just buy the frame an dthen build it to your own specs it could be a sweet ride.
| Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Bill Sol
a Cross Country Rider
from Princeton, NJ, USA
Date Reviewed: September 10, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1649.00 | | Purchased At: | Ski Barn | | Strengths: | This bike once properly set-up is an excellent overall bike. Make sure you buy it from a reputable shop with a good mecahanic. | | Weaknesses: | CHAIN SUCK. As said many times on this website these bikes have a chain line problem. It is not related to the Bontrager parts but to the alignment of the welds. | | Similar Products Used: | Old stumpjumer | | Bike Setup: | Stock with Hayes Hydraulic brakes | | Bottom Line: | This bike once set up properly (I needed a new frame to achieve this) is everything I wanted it to be when I first bought the bike in May. On my first ride I had Chain Suck so bad the chain bent. I brought the bike back they gave a new chain and blamed it on the bike being improperly adjusted before it left the shop. On the second ride I still had chain suck when in the middle ring. I asked the shop to call Trek and they said it was improper sindle length. They sent a 110mm BB and said it would solve the problem, it did not. Finally Trek had them do the "string test" and determined that I needed a new frame. The alignment of the welds on the pivots were off by about 3-4 mm. I had the head Mechanic at Ski Barn, Eric, try to adjust my bike with spacers in the meantime so I could ride while waiting for my new frame. He preformed his magic and I was on the trail again. Finally my new frame came and the bike works wonderfully. If you want this bike (it is an excellent bike) have the shop call Trek and preform the String Test before you take the bike home. If you live in NJ I recomend buying this bike at Ski Barn because there service and helpfulness has been excelent (esp. Eric). Overall Trek gets a 1 For not fixing the problem right away and this bike gets a 4.5 for its great overall preformance on the trail. $1649 for a bike with Disc Brakes is a great deal even if you have a few headaches along the way. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Bill Sol
a Cross Country Rider
from Princeton, NJ, USA
Date Reviewed: September 10, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1649.00 | | Purchased At: | Ski Barn | | Strengths: | This bike once properly set-up is an excellent overall bike. Make sure you buy it from a reputable shop with a good mecahanic. | | Weaknesses: | CHAIN SUCK. As said many times on this website these bikes have a chain line problem. It is not related to the Bontrager parts but to the alignment of the welds. | | Similar Products Used: | Old stumpjumer | | Bike Setup: | Stock with Hayes Hydraulic brakes | | Bottom Line: | This bike once set up properly (I needed a new frame to achieve this) is everything I wanted it to be when I first bought the bike in May. On my first ride I had Chain Suck so bad the chain bent. I brought the bike back they gave a new chain and blamed it on the bike being improperly adjusted before it left the shop. On the second ride I still had chain suck when in the middle ring. I asked the shop to call Trek and they said it was improper sindle length. They sent a 110mm BB and said it would solve the problem, it did not. Finally Trek had them do the "string test" and determined that I needed a new frame. The alignment of the welds on the pivots were off by about 3-4 mm. I had the head Mechanic at Ski Barn, Eric, try to adjust my bike with spacers in the meantime so I could ride while waiting for my new frame. He preformed his magic and I was on the trail again. Finally my new frame came and the bike works wonderfully. If you want this bike (it is an excellent bike) have the shop call Trek and preform the String Test before you take the bike home. If you live in NJ I recomend buying this bike at Ski Barn because there service and helpfulness has been excelent (esp. Eric). Overall Trek gets a 1 For not fixing the problem right away and this bike gets a 4.5 for its great overall preformance on the trail. $1649 for a bike with Disc Brakes is a great deal even if you have a few headaches along the way. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Zuke
a Cross Country Rider
from Draper, UT
Date Reviewed: September 6, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Corner Canyon/Jacobs Ladder | | Duration Product Used: | Tested or demo'ed only | | Purchased At: | Alta Cyclery | | Strengths: | Good climber and fairly smooth downhill. | | Weaknesses: | Need an allen wrench to change travel on rear shock. Stock tires are no good for desert mountain trails. | | Similar Products Used: | Kona, Santa Cruz, Spec. Enduro | | Bike Setup: | Stock | | Bottom Line: | Good all around bike for the advanced rider who likes technical terrain more than jeep trails and cat trails, excellent bang for the buck. I have a benchmark time for my demo ride from my house to the first rest stop and it is 45 minutes on my old rigid Reflex F1. Most f/s bikes have done the climb in the 50 minute range and this one did it in 46 minutes two days in a row. It is more precise in the technical stuff than most other f/s bikes and it aced the road apple slalom with no freckles if you know what I mean.
I had no problems with chain suck as has been reported by past reviewers or with any other parts. The guys at the shop set the bike up well and explained the problems and how they solved them. I do not recomend the stock tires if you ride in rocky, sandy terrain they dig in to the soft sand and slide off of the hard stuff on side hills.
If price is a major concern than this is a great bike, if it is not your major concern than read my report on the Santa Cruz Superlight. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Luke
a Cross Country Rider
from Sudbury, MA
Date Reviewed: September 3, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | F. Gilbert State Forest | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | Spoke 'n Wheel | | Strengths: | Smooth ride. Climbs like a mountain goat. | | Weaknesses: | Initial Chainsuck issues | | Similar Products Used: | none | | Bike Setup: | Stock except XT front derailleur, XT Hollowtech Crankset | | Bottom Line: | I experienced all the chainsuck crap that many have described with this bike. I had read about the problems before I bought the thing but I was unable to find a bike that felt better (in this price range) than the sugar. My LBS was very patient and proactive in helping me address the issue. After bending the granny and chewing up the frame Trek agreed to replace the Bonty with the XT Hollowtech and a narrow chain. They also replace the front frame which was slightly misaligned. The problem still occurs but it happens only when shifting from the middle to the granny when I'm on the outer five rear rings. Even in that case when I hear it occurring a short back pedal releases the chain.
I am very happy with the bike now. It allows me to climb stuff I was never able to do before and my confidence has really grown. My advice to potential buyers at this point is to have the frame checked before you buy the bike. Better yet, wait a month or two and buy the 2003 model.
| | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Bernardo Vergara
a Weekend Warrior
from NJ
Date Reviewed: August 30, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | many | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | Ski Barn | | Strengths: | None. Maybe the color. | | Weaknesses: | Hmm. I'm not a heavy guy and I bottom out the fork going down the curb. CHAINSUCK!! This bike is DANGEROUS!! The chain gets wedged so tight between the granny ring and the frame that the cranks get stuck and you cannot pedal. Not a good thing in the wrong part of the trail. I have broken one chain already and each time the chain gets stuck it digs in to the frame shaving off aluminum. You will not ride this bike as it is. If you buy there will be much time spent trying to fix it, if that is possible at all. The frames are MIS-ALIGNED. Somebody was asleep at the wheel while welding. It is a waste of money! | | Similar Products Used: | Trek 8000, Stumpjumper. | | Bike Setup: | Stock. New 110 bb. | | Bottom Line: | DON'T BUY THIS BIKE!! You will spend much time trying to get the drivetrain to work. It drops the chain for no reason. I broke the chain. LBS sent in the first frame and I recieved a new one. The bottom bracket was changed to a different size. I took it for the first ride since I got it back and the problems are worse. It still drops the chain and wedges it. It also seems like Trek isn't owning up to the problem. They act as if this were the first bike that has had this problem. If you buy this bike you will not see it most of the time. It will be in the shop. Worse is that you will not see the trails. DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY. This shouldn't happen to a bike in this price range. I will NEVER buy anything that says Trek or Gary Fisher on it again. | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
duncan mccallum
a Cross Country Rider
from scotland
Date Reviewed: August 27, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | glentress mtn | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$2000.00 | | Purchased At: | alpine bikes edinburgh | | Strengths: | super plush ride, realy fun and climbs better than a lot of other bikes, jeckel 700(cannondale) and sub 5 (orange), very confident on rockey fast down hills, with the upgrades this is a great hard core xc machine which should take a beating | | Weaknesses: | initial bonty chian set was very poor , so changed it to XT now way better, poor tyres, and shop delivered without disk ready hubs! and stupid combo shifters so when you upgrade to disks you need to change that as well , expensive. | | Similar Products Used: | Enduro comp, FSR XC Comp | | Bike Setup: | upgraded with hope mini,s and xc hubs, mavic 317's, xt chain set, xt shifters and panaracer xc pro's | | Bottom Line: | this machine now is a great set up, and would not swap for anything, totally responsive, easy and fun to ride, very predictable when in trouble and fast, the psylo is a fab fork and cane creek rear shock well set up by Alpine who are a good outfit with great service. Just recently shreaded the lower suspension bearings but replaced under warenty , so look out for this if you are riding hard on rocky stuff. all in all perfect for me now but if you can get the upgrades done in the shop or buy the 2+ with disk outright.
the riding position is high so now chalenged by new northshore stuff and lack of skill, but i will break my body before the bike | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Matt
a Cross Country Rider
from San Diego, California
Date Reviewed: August 24, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1200.00 | | Purchased At: | Supergo | | Strengths: | Light weight, great suspension design, smooth ride, extremily durable, adjustable front and rear suspension, price. | | Weaknesses: | None!! | | Similar Products Used: | '01 Mongoose full suspension, Specialized Enduro (tested only) and Stumpjumper (tested only) | | Bike Setup: | All components XT except Avid SD3 brakes, Manitou Black Elite 80/100mm fork, Veloci Raptor tires, Cane Creek AD5 rear shock. | | Bottom Line: | Extremily smooth ride. UJnbeliebeable conformity to all trail turrain. Rode right over several stumps, roots, crubs, rocks...took them all and felt nothing. This thing is sweet (it's a sugar). Bike is super light which helps in cross country riding. Ability to adjust from 2.8 to 4.1 inches of rear suspension in a matter of seconds is great. No bob whatsoever. Manitou Black Elite fork switches from 80 to 100mm in travel with the flick of a switch. Maximizes your output by being able to adjust to small travel for climbing, then back to more broad suspension for taking whatever the trail throws at you. Bike handles with precision. Extremily durable. On my first ride on the real trails with this bike, the ride was so smooth and the bike performed so briliantly I grew a bit over confident and ended up flat on my shoulder with cuts all the way up (or down) my arm. I was trying to become one with the trail, but took it a little to far. My first worry (after cleaning all my deep wounds) was to check the bike. Not a scratch! No component harmed, no scratches to the paint, no decals peeled off...nothing. Amazing bike. Worth every dime. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Bruno Barcelos
a Weekend Warrior
from Lisboa, Portugal
Date Reviewed: August 22, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Chimney rock | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1200.00 | | Purchased At: | SuperGo | | Strengths: | Overall handelling; good both uphill and downhill | | Weaknesses: | chainsucks - poor drivetrain | | Similar Products Used: | specialized enduro | | Bike Setup: | Only the frame and rear end are stock: Hayes disc, mavic wheel, azonic handlebar, thompson stem, specialized seat | | Bottom Line: | If I new better, I had bought the Sugar 2. With all the upgrades, I ended up spending lots of $, and I am still not happy with the fork: need stifer springs or a psylo.
Great bike geometry, really fun to ride! Amazing upgrade from hardtail. Good compromise. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Matt
a Weekend Warrior
from Monee, Illinois
Date Reviewed: August 21, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Palos | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1400.00 | | Purchased At: | Tinley Bike & Fitness | | Strengths: | Climbs well & handles the sketchy stuff too. | | Weaknesses: | Initial drive train problems with the chain dropping off the middle ring on to the granny. Resolved, not by replacing parts, but by adjusting the front d/r. Black Elite Fork is too mushy with stock spring. Bumped it up to medium (i'm 160lbs) & now it's fine, but the 80mm setting will prob never be used, as it's too firm with the new spring. | | Similar Products Used: | 2000 Specialized FSR Enduro Expert | | Bike Setup: | Stock | | Bottom Line: | This is my 2nd review. I don't know. Some of these posts are pretty confusing to new Sugar owners. After reading all the stuff below I felt certain I had a lemon on my hands. I ride a couple times a week in the Chicagoland area. Not super technical, but we hit enought stuff to put a bike through it's motions. With the exception of the chain getting wedged between the granny and the chain stay on one occasion, (requiring me to break the chain to jar it loose), I've had no other problems. I've ordered a shorter bb to hopefully eliminate any future chain wedge aggravation, but I'm almost afraid changing the bb will screw up the shifting which has been flawless thus far. New Sugar owners!! Don't believe everything you read on this site. Some problems are legit, others are people jumping to conclusions. Maybe the Bontrager parts aren't high end, but their not bad either. I've had no problem with the Bontrager crank. Most of these problems posted below are the result of a few frames that were mfg with bad allignment. I think Fisher could have been more pro-active about clarifying what bikes had allignment problems. And I really think Fisher's customer service sucks when they won't respond to emails which inquire about the drivetrain problems. They tell you to take it to your lbs. That's B.S. They make the product...they should give answers directly to the end user so nothing's lost in the translation. All in all it's a pretty good ride. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John Smith
a Cross Country Rider
from SOCAL
Date Reviewed: August 21, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | trails with dirt on them | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | LBS | | Strengths: | Won't be noticed untill Fisher replaces drivetrain | | Weaknesses: | Stock mixed-up drivetrain. Sram, Shimano, and Bontrager are not a harmonious mix on this bike. | | Similar Products Used: | None. | | Bike Setup: | Shimano XT cassette, XT crankset, XT BB, and Durace chain, Firm-ride spring in Manitou fork, OED pads (completely silent and powerful) PERFECT!!!!! | | Bottom Line: | Buy this bike at its now marked-down price (Supergo is asking 1199 for the 3+) spend some money on getting an all-Shimano drivetrain (the way it's supposed to be anyway) and you will have a truly sweet bike. Or, wait untill the 2003 models come out. These bikes will probably not have anymore drivetrain problems, and they will have flashier colors, FOX rear shocks instead of Cane Creek, and Rock Shox Duke forks. This is not speculation, this is fact. Personally, I think the conservative blue color is much more handsome than the flashy red.
My Sugar 3+ disc, now properly equipped, is the pure extasy to ride. It should have been properly equipped in the show room, however. I should not have had to got through hassles, headaches and confusion (much of which is perpetuated by posts on this site) when I dropped 1500 bucks. You can improve your Sugar by getting a shorter BB, but you can make it perfect with an all-shimano drivetrain. That is just my experience.
Bike buyers may want to consider Marin bikes because they are one of the only manufacturers that spec their bikes all-Shimano. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jeff
a Weekend Warrior
from Phoenix
Date Reviewed: August 11, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1199.00 | | Purchased At: | Supergo | | Strengths: | Reliable. Good components for the price. This bike handles great - very responsive | | Weaknesses: | No weaknesses so far . . . I replaced the crank before leaving the bike store. | | Similar Products Used: | Specialized FSR 2002 | | Bike Setup: | Stock except for Race face crank and XTR rear derailleur | | Bottom Line: | Overall this bike has been great. Before leaving the store I replaced the crank with a race face. As a result, I have not experienced any of the crank problems that others have mentioned. The race face cranks seems to have solved the problem. I have ridden this bike on differant types of terrain and this bike has handled everything without any problems. The suspension is great and is very responsive. This bike is amazing on the climbs and it is incredible in tight corners. I would recommend this bike to anyone who is looking for a solid performing XC full suspension bike that is moderately priced. Four chilis on value because I had to replace the crank before leaving the store. Five chilis for overall rating due to its amazing performance. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Adam Cunningham
a Weekend Warrior
from Englewood
Date Reviewed: August 8, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Deer Creek | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1000.00 | | Purchased At: | Supergo | | Strengths: | For the money a great suspension that is adjustable. Light weight. | | Weaknesses: | Cranks (taken care of) | | Similar Products Used: | My next bike will be a Santa Cruz | | Bike Setup: | NEW: XT CRANKS, XT bb --- Have avid mechanical disc brakes, Mavic Crossrock wheels. | | Bottom Line: | This is my second review. First review was in May of 02.
This bike had serious chain suck problems. Trek after some calls from my LBS sent a new front triangle of the frame. My LBS changed out the frame (free of charge) and I still had chain suck issues. I went back in and complained and they called trek again. Trek offered Deore cranks, I bulked and asked if that was the same level of quality parts that this bike was built with and they offered LX cranks. They would not offer to give XT cranks. My LBS let me upgrade to XT cranks and BB and gave me the $90 credit for the parts trek was sending.
Well with all of that said and 6 months of trying to get this bike dailed in - I now have a bike that performs great. I don't have any chain suck problems and now this bike climbs like it should. It makes downhills a joy and uphills I find are easier with the full suspension, or at least I am not as worried about picking the easiest line becasue the suspension will allow me to smooth out a rocky section.
I am not impressed with Trek's customer service, but my LBS did a wonderful job arguing with Trek to get me a bike that I love to ride.
For the money this is a great bike. I highly reccomend the disc brakes and the tubeless tires. If you have the coin to drop check out the new Santa Cruz Blur - it may be the best bike I have ever ridden. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
curtis
a Cross Country Rider
from sandpoint, ID USA
Date Reviewed: August 4, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | game creek | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1000.00 | | Purchased At: | used | | Strengths: | climbing, control and frame design. | | Weaknesses: | hard to get the front shifter just right. this bike has a mix of components on it but does have the bontrager cranks. i have had trouble shifting to small chainring and have overshot that ring but have not wedged the chain. | | Similar Products Used: | i tested giant and specialized. sugar wins. | | Bike Setup: | basically stock. | | Bottom Line: | i rode several sugar 3+ bikes before i found this one for sale. they all shifted OK but i wish i had read all this frame info before i bought. CAN SOMEONE DESCRIBE THE STRING TEST FOR ME?? bottom line for me is - this is a great bike, my agility improves every day. i'll have this frame a long time but anticipate some component upgrades. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Chris
a Racer
from Mt. View
Date Reviewed: July 29, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Braile | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | LBS | | Strengths: | Componenets are pretty nice, although I've had most of the drivetrain stuff replaced because of chainsuck. The 2 rear suspension settings really are very nice. Disc Brakes are the best upgrade ever. Save the extra pennies and make sure you get the 3+ Disc. | | Weaknesses: | Same as described below. Chainsuck, chainsuck, chainsuck. Trek customer service is flat out awful. | | Similar Products Used: | Santa Cruz Superlight, Heckler, 2000 Sugar 2, Specialized FSR Pro. | | Bike Setup: | Actually its more like things that aren't stock at this point. New component list: Chis King Headset, XT crankset, XT cassette, XT front-derailuer, Thomson setpost, XTR / Dura-Ace chain. | | Bottom Line: | Wow. I really dont know where to start. First, I'm on my 3rd Sugar 3+ frame. The first frame I bought about 6 months ago, and was misalligned (we did the string test). I was sent a replacement frame in late April and experienced chainsuck the first ride out. Fisher decided instead of panicing we should replace the crankset (still use 113mm bottom bracket) and see what happens. Still had chainsuck. Was told that the frames sent in late April under warranty were known to have not been alligned correctly. (Are you kidding me?!?!?!). New frame came in last week, and I built it up and rode it the first time yesterday. No chainsuck yet. Actually the chain didnt behave as weird as it did on the first 2 frames, so I have hope that this one will resolve the problem once and for all. Won't know till I get to ride in some muddy conditions though.
Now onto the pluses with this bike. The two suspension modes for front and rear work great. No bobbing induced when in either of the two modes climbing up hills if you have a pretty good pedal stroke. I've had many riders comment on the lack of bobb they see uphill. That said and this bike climbs great. Also a very fast descender. I think if you were to replace the stem with something stiffer it would be even better in the downhills.
Bottom line: Would I buy this bike again knowing what I know now?
No. The bike is a great design. I love the features, the geometry and the performance. Also a good value for the money. Whats not a good value is money spent on making the chainline work right (2 broken chains, 2 mangled chainrings-upgraded parts for fear of them causing the chainsuck problems). Also Trek customer service is so bad I don't even want to get into it. They have screwed up with this in more ways than I can possibly imagine. Kings of Murphy's law all of them. The experience has permenantly put me off of ever buying a Trek product that has question marks again. I wonder if Gary Fisher (the man) knows about or cares how poorly they are treating his customers right now.
What would I have done different?:
Bought a 2001 Sugar 1 and put disc brakes on it. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Chris
a
from Annapolis, MD
Date Reviewed: July 28, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1341.00 | | Purchased At: | Sun & Ski, Arundel Mills | | Strengths: | Lightweight, responsive, bombproof...completely reliable (don't believe the other reviews).
Combine the Sybil rear suspension withe the Black Elite fork, and go from singletrack to freeride with a lever flip and a bolt switch. | | Weaknesses: | Makes the rider the weak link. Okay, the stock tires suck for grocery store runs, but I'm the only wetbrain using this bike on streets and sidewalks. | | Similar Products Used: | Crappy FS and Hardtail bikes, Fuel 90, Cannondale Scalpel, Voodoo Hoodoo, some Specializeds. | | Bike Setup: | Still stock...what needs changing? | | Bottom Line: | Regarding the chainsuck issues: Fisher and the LBS both admitted there were problems...which were caught, however, and corrected. Only very early model year bikes had the problem, and any remaining in stores have been replaced or corrected. Just to make sure, they fully guaranteed the bottom bracket, crank, and cassette, and assured me that if Fisher wouldn't fix it, they would. After pushing the bike VERY hard every day (literally) for two weeks, I can tell you everything is perfect.
The bike is very light - I think it's under the 27-point-something pounds fisherbikes.com lists. The shifting is crisp, the handling is quick and precise, and it climbs like Chris Sharma.
The suspension is absolutely psychic - at least for my 5-11 180lb frame. You never notice the rear shock until you need it. There is absolutely no GD MF'n pedal bob, and it resists flex on mild terrain. When you hit real problems, however, the shock (read: the design) handles business like none other. AND, it changes from 2.8 to 4.1 inches of travel in under a minute, with one allen wrench. Insane.
Couple the quick-change rear suspension with the even-quicker-change front suspension (80 to 100mm with the flip of a switch) and you have the most versatile bike ever built. It changes from a near-hardtail to a bomber freerider in seconds.
So...the bike is lighter, and therefore faster, more efficient, and smoother than advertised, it shifts perfect, handles insane, has the best suspension design I've used, and the Genesis Geometry is the real deal. It makes me the weak link - the way it should be. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
bob
a Racer
from washington
Date Reviewed: July 26, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Tested or demo'ed only | | Bottom Line: | The chain suck problem is not from the wrong size bottom bracket, the frame has an alignment problem. The shorter bb is a cheap fix most of time, but will not always work. Do the string test, if you do not know how, ask you lbs to do a string test and you will find the true problem. Some frames have been over 6 mm out of alignment, and anything over 2 mm is not acceptable. If you are having the chain suck problem, ask your dealer and maybe you can get your frame replaced. Overall, a sweet ride. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Matt
a Weekend Warrior
from Monee
Date Reviewed: July 22, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Palos / Dirksen-Peoria, Illinois | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1400.00 | | Purchased At: | Richards Bike & Fitness-Tinley Pk | | Strengths: | Great climber. Agile. Decends pretty well. Light weight. Nice to look at too. I would like to address the chain suck issue here in this post. I never read any of these reviews prior to my purchase and was mad at myself when I stumbled upon all the bad press surrounding the chain suck problems. I've had the bike just over a month now and have put over 100 off-road miles on it in fairly technical terrain. I was experiencing the chain suck problems. Founds all these posts and pretty pissed off at myself for not doing better research prior to purchase. Chain kept dropping off the middle ring on to the granny. Experienced no ghost shifting on the rear cassette. Called my lbs and told them of the problem & of all these posts. Lbs told me to bring my bike in so they could measure it, citing possible frame defects. Frame measured OK. Fisher rep claimed the bb & crank issue was bull. I told the lbs to order a 110mm bb anyway, which they agreed to do free of charge. In the mean time they tuned the shifting & said it'd be a week b4 the new bb arrived so if I want to p/u my bike they'd call me when the part came in. So I p/u my ride and put in 13 miles on some tech trails with a lot of switchbacks and log crossings. Not once does the chain drop off! Not once. On previous rides it happened at least a 1/2 dozen times. I called my lbs and told them the problem was gone. I know many of the previous problems posted here are legit, not to mention frustrating, but my issue was just a front d/r adjustment issue and nothing more. I haven't read anything on this post that explains exactly why the cranks are bad or how they are defective, but that they "Just Are". I can understand how they'd be flexy for heavier riders, but other than that they are fine imo. I see no reason to change them. When they ware out I'll replace them with some XT's. | | Weaknesses: | After reading all the previous reviews I was surprised to see few complaints about the Black Elite fork. Don't get me wrong...I like it, but at 157lbs the stock springs are a bit mushy. I'm told by friends that have the black that if I up the spring weight I'll lose some of the action in the 80mm setting, so I'm just gonna leave it. Just sorta sucks on the climbs due to all the bob. In the 80mm setting it rocks on the climbs. | | Similar Products Used: | 2000 FSR Enduro Expert | | Bike Setup: | Stock | | Bottom Line: | It is a great bike & I love it! I would talk to your lbs before your purchase to forwarn them of the possible chain suck problems. Like others on this post have said...you wont experience the chain suck problems until you take it out on the trail | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Dave Zeman
a Cross Country Rider
from Kennesaw, Georgia, USA
Date Reviewed: July 21, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Bear Creek | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1400.00 | | Purchased At: | Free Flite Bikes | | Strengths: | Just about everything. The 80 to 100 switch on the Black fork is great, as is the abilty to place the rear shock in 2 different positions. Frame - first bike that i have found that really fits my 6'4 frame. Dig the seat... | | Weaknesses: | BOTTOM BRACKET!!!!!!!!!! CRANKS!!!!!!!!!!!! | | Similar Products Used: | specilized FSR, various GTs, various Konas, Trek Fuel 90 | | Bike Setup: | stock except for new cranks (LX), time atac pedals (something else exists?), and my characteristic blue grips | | Bottom Line: | This is one hell of a bike once the bottom bracket issue is taken care of. I would like to thank everyone who has posted on this board. Thanks to the information I learned from thier hardships I bypassed all the BB problems by getting a new one (the correct size) before I bought the bike. My LBS was somewhat of a pain on this issue. Belive it or not they told me that they wouldn't cover the new BB until I started having problems? What???? So i shelled out the cash to go ahead and have the correct size put in. Haven't had any shifting issues. The talk behind the geometry really holds up on the trail. Great value, 4 chilis for the bottom bracket issue | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Richard
a Cross Country Rider
from Provo, UT, USA
Date Reviewed: July 17, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Anything in Moab | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1200.00 | | Purchased At: | Aardvark Cycles | | Strengths: | The whole bike | | Weaknesses: | BonTragger Crank. | | Similar Products Used: | This is my first Full Suspension | | Bike Setup: | LX Crank, Fox Vanilla RL Shock, Sun Rhino Lite Rims, XT hubs. | | Bottom Line: | This was one of the best purchase's that I have ever made. I love this bike, the only problems that I have ever had were with the amount of flex that the crank had, after upgrading to the LX crank I have had no problems at all. I changed the shock and wheelset due to my size. Overall I would give this bike a 4.5 rating with the stock setup, Fisher really needs to fix the problem with the crank and the chain suck that is caused by the bontragger crank. With the LX setup I haven't experienced any chain suck and the drive train works flawlessly. This is a great bike for my first FS and will probably be the last bike that I get for a while. The adjustable travle on both the front and rear suspension make this a great all around bike that is outstanding for the value of the bike. The other reason that I fell in love with this bike was the Geometry, I was able to climb stuff on this bike that I couldn't on my old hard tail, not sure weather that has to do with the full suspension or with the geometry, but either way I would recomend this bike as a great first Full Suspension bike. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Andrew Graulich
a Weekend Warrior
from Ann Arbor, MI
Date Reviewed: July 15, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Burchfield Park | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1300.00 | | Purchased At: | Velocipede Peddler | | Strengths: | Good frame, solid and smooth ride, just "felt" better to me, and hey, I even like the color ;) | | Weaknesses: | Chain suck on the first ride on the trail, chain dropping between middle and small chainring, not always smoothly shifting between chainrings | | Similar Products Used: | other Fisher | | Bike Setup: | swapped up to XT front derailleur, XT shifters, Avid SD7 brakes and levers, smaller BB (110 as per this site), Fisik ti rail saddle, Teflon shifter/brake cables, different pedals | | Bottom Line: | Overall I am happy with the bike so far, I have not had it very long at all.....will post follow-up review....working with LBS (who has been talking to Trek rep) on shifting/chain suck problems. Contemplating upgrade to XT BB and crank. I recommend the bike, but be prepared to fiddle with it potentially. I say that because the guy who sold it to me has the disc model and hasn't had any problems. I had chain suck on the first trail ride going up an gentle and small hill, shifting to small ring right before. Gouged the brand-new paint and had to walk off the trail and go back to the shop to have it fixed. Chain dropped off the middle ring partially on a parking lot ride, on a paved track ride about half the time the shifts between rings were not smooth or had to be done twice. Bike is a good value, and I don't expect perfection in a mechanical device, but I am concerned about this design. 4 and 4 habaneros.... | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Cam
a Weekend Warrior
from Calgary
Date Reviewed: July 12, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Purchased At: | Lifesport | | Strengths: | An all around outstanding bike (now) | | Weaknesses: | Bottom bracket | | Similar Products Used: | Giant, RM Element, Trek Fuel | | Bike Setup: | Stock (except bottom bracket) | | Bottom Line: | Right from the start I thought this was an outstanding bike. A great climber and handler with versatility. Like the others, I too experienced chain suck/skip problems which were annoying but did not ruin my weekends on the trails. Last week I took my bike to my LBS, and with no hassles or questions, they replaced the BB with a slightly shorter one. No problems since and the bike is performing better than expected. I did not replace the crankset, and I don't see any reason to now.
I would recommend this bike to everyone, provided you switch-out the BB before you leave the store.
Cudos to Jay at Lifesport and the Fisher reps for quickly addressing my concerns. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Tom
a Weekend Warrior
from Boston, MA
Date Reviewed: July 12, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Lynn Woods/ Harold Parker, etc | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Strengths: | Feel, geometry, fit, color (I like it), Spec's (for the most part) Stiffness, ride... | | Weaknesses: | The fact that I had to upgrade before getting the bike to where I wanted it to be! | | Similar Products Used: | FSR/ XC Comp, Trek Fuel 90, Tomac 98, Kona ManoMano, etc. | | Bike Setup: | Stock but with TruVativ Stylo cranks, Shimano 536 pedals, Avid SD 7 brakes and levers, XT shifters, firm spring in Black fork | | Bottom Line: | This bike has done more for my riding then I thought possible. Builds confidence, smoothes out the terrain, just feels great to ride. I went into buying this bike in the early stages of reading about the issues with chainsuck, chainline, Bontrager cranks, etc. so my LBS was aware that there could be issues. First off I experienced NO chainsuck with the Bontrager cranks. The shifting was poor and the derailleur (front)impossible to adjust to my liking. Also the brakes needed adjusting after every ride to get them centered properly. I upgraded the cranks to TruVativ Stylo SL's and BB, and Avid 7 SD brakes and the bike is PERFECT. Shifts smoothly, under load or not, climbs great, decends wonderfully..what more can I say..I'm thrilled! Also, took some getting used to the Backcountry tires and was ready to swap 'em out..but give them a chance..run them just under 40 lbs. and they work pretty well..my next upgrade will be to an AD-12 rear shock, but right now..I'm a happy camper with my Sugar. I think the issues are acknowledged all over this board, and I guess the alignment problems occurred in a heat treating process. If the bike feels wrong out of the gate, hesitate or if your LBS is a good one, have them measure the alignment before you buy..this is more of an issue than the Bontrager cranks which were ok..but shift terribly. I do agree that you shouldn't have to shim your cassette, and make all sort of changes out of the gate, but I was prepared to make some and knew what I wanted to do...if it rides well out of the shop, chances are it's okay..the tolerances are tight on 9 speed as it is..add in full suspension and a slightly (2-3mm) out of alignment issue, and things just don't work right! Hopefully GF has dealt with and corrected the issues from here on in..
Bottom line..if it feels right..buy it from a good shop that is aware that there COULD be issues and is willing to go the extra mile with the manufacturer for you. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John
a Cross Country Rider
from Bristol, UK
Date Reviewed: July 9, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | 9 Feet, Port Talbort, Wales | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1300.00 | | Purchased At: | insurance replacment | | Strengths: | Reasonalbly light, good price. | | Weaknesses: | CHAIN SUCK...see below, and the front forks look tired very fast..after only two months the decals started falling off. | | Similar Products Used: | 2000 Sugar 3 | | Bike Setup: | stock except..LX chainset and shimano chain | | Bottom Line: | As a fairly light cross country rider in the UK( fast single track my fave) I like the bike.I had the 2000 model which was stolen and this bike is diffinatly stronger and lighter. The problem is chain suck, TrekUK the importer were unaware this (I have sent them details of this web site)and after 6 months of changing chains, chainsets, rear blocks were still no closer to an answer. TrekUK have booked by bike into a different local shop and seem to think its just a set-up issue...I'm not conviced.
Like most people here i love the bike BUT only when it works..
If your in the market dont buy one now ..wait till the 2003's are about.. and hope the prolem is sorted | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Steve
a Cross Country Rider
from Calgary, Alberta
Date Reviewed: July 7, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Big Elbow | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Purchased At: | Soma Cycle | | Strengths: | Hayes Hydraulics, Psylo XC forks | | Weaknesses: | none so far | | Similar Products Used: | Schwinn Rocket 88 | | Bike Setup: | Hayes, Psylo XC, XT crankset & rear derailleur, Bontrager Race disk wheelset | | Bottom Line: | No chainsuck problems here, but I did have the crank and BB replaced before I rode it. Climbs great for a bike this heavy and gives you a ton of confidence on the way down. Would I buy another one? You bet. Don't believe all the crap you're reading about this ride, its the real deal. If you can only afford one bike and you want it to do it all, look no further. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jeff Heinrich
a Cross Country Rider
from Boston, MA USA
Date Reviewed: July 7, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Anything in New Hamsphire | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1525.00 | | Purchased At: | Country Ski and Sport Market | | Strengths: | Excellent suspension, Adjustable shock travel a Bonus!! | | Weaknesses: | Major chain suck and phantom shifting. My sugar 3+ has been in the LBS more than on the trails! Continuing problems have produces 5 new tune-ups, two chains, and aload of money spent on tuning out problems that shouldn't be happening! LBS continues to give me the run-around about being to hard on the bike. Well If I was going to ride the bike on the flat pavement of the street I would have used my little cousins plastic big-wheel!! Iam still waiting from a response from Gary Fisher themselves about their warrenty policy concerning was seems to me and to many others a product defect! Who would of thought buying an American Made Product would give me such problems. I guess with my experience with my Sugar3+, well I definately know where my next bike purchase will not be from. Sorry Gary Fisher, but maybe a response to your customers continual problems with send new buyers running for your products insteads of trying to get away from them!! Not impressed by any means!!! | | Similar Products Used: | Specialized Full-suspension, Fufi, Giant, GT, and Rocky Mountain. | | Bike Setup: | Stock Sugar 3+, with expectations of replacing all defective parts that came on my new purchase!!!!! | | Bottom Line: | Waste of money! Unless Gary Fisher can come foward and help all those that have spent hard-earned money on a so-called reliable product, don't waste your money on a Fisher product! Always test as many bikes as possible and always make sure your getting what you paid for, because this has not happened to many of us!! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Ken
a Weekend Warrior
from Tempe, Az
Date Reviewed: July 6, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Desert Classic, South Mountain, Az | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$899.00 | | Purchased At: | Supergo | | Strengths: | The frame geometery is incredible, VERY plush, swingarm behaves similiar to specialized FSR geometery. Climbs incrediblely well. I bought the Sugar 3+ disc. (Was on sale at Supergo for $899, KILLER DEAL) Excellent Bontrager wheel set, Manitou Black Elite Shock, Hayes hydro disc brakes, Cane Creek AD-5, WTB saddle . All offer incredible performance, and value, individually these components alone would put the cost above the $1500 mark. | | Weaknesses: | If you grind uphill, you are going to throw your chain. There is no way around it. On the trail its pretty difficult to remove the crankset to free it so pay attention. You can remove the skewer from the AD-5 shock so the swingarm goes down, and easily free the chain. You'll never be able to get it unstuck any other way. If your a lightweight you may not have as bad as a problem. I'm 200lbs. | | Similar Products Used: | Mongoose Solution, Gary Fisher Big Sur, Jackal, Sugar 4+ to Sugar 1. Very briefly on Specialized FSR | | Bike Setup: | Stock, if you really need to know:
http://www.fisherbikes.com/bikes/bike_detail.asp?series=sugarplus&bike=Sugar3_plus_Disc | | Bottom Line: | This bike was an incredible buy for me, and if you pick it up for anything less than $1500 its a fair deal. Expect to have to deal with throwing your chain off your rings, and expect to have it stuck under the swingarm. It takes about 5 min to unskewer the shock and reset the chain. Your going to have to replace the rings, I think, although alot of other people on this string disagree, that the cranks are decent, but the rings are going to have to go. I'd recommend buying some Shimano XT or XTR, or Specialized Strongarm as a replacement. It'll be alot cheaper than replacing the entire set, since to put a complete XT crankset on also means a new splined bottom bracket (around $200). Don't get me wrong, this is a great bike. If you are considering buying one, get it. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Rob
a Cross Country Rider
from Longview Washington
Date Reviewed: July 4, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1350.00 | | Purchased At: | Bobs Westside Pedal Power | | Strengths: | Great handling bike, with quality component mix for the price. | | Weaknesses: | cable routing rubs frame severely around the head tube. | | Similar Products Used: | First full suspension bike. | | Bike Setup: | Flat handlebars,flite saddle,cloud nine rear shock,and sram chain. | | Bottom Line: | Bottom line is that I love this bike. I have had an occassional chain suck, but nothing any more than any other Mt.Bike I have ever had. I just had a rash of chain suck on a major ride the other day, but once home I noticed by small chain ring was severely worn. I replaced it and installed a new chain and everything is great again. I have ridden this bike on average 2 hours every other day for 6 month in severe single track conditions, and it has held up great, with just normal maintenance.
The wheels haven't had to be trued, but I have had to replace the rear wheel bearings and the rear cassette body, all none under warranty.
The suspension pivots have held up well, I just did an inspection, and they showed no signs of wear. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Charles Patterson
a Cross Country Rider
from Topanga
Date Reviewed: July 3, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Strengths: | Climbing capability. Lack of rear suspension bob. Great brakes. | | Weaknesses: | Came with wrong size bottom bracket, so chainsuck occurred before correct BB was installed by LBS. | | Similar Products Used: | None | | Bike Setup: | Stock except for firm ride kit in Black Elite fork. | | Bottom Line: | Alright, here's the deal guys. I posted a nasty review and here is my follow up. As I have learned, the problem with my bike and many other 2002 full suspension bikes made by Fisher/Trek/Klein, is that they were shipped out with BB's that were the wrong size. My bike had all the problems that everyone is whining about. I had my shop do the free fix, a shorter BB, but I did not get an XT crankset, despite the testimony of the mechanic. Now my bike shifts flawlessy and NEVER gets chain suck. There is nothing wrong with the Bontrager cranksets. The LBS's just want you to think they are defective so they can sell them to you. This misconception is helping bike shop owners make money in this turbulent times. Bottom Line: Bikes do not and should not need XT cranksets to shift properly. If you bought one, I'm sorry but you got robbed. Fisher bikes should have cleared this up, but they haven't. The Sugar 3+ disc is the best bike I have ever ridden. Don't believe the hype. The Sugar 3+ is a great bike. It is light, it climbs, it descends, and it has full suspension. What more could you ask for? | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Dave Schillinger
a
from Enfield CT
Date Reviewed: June 30, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | All of them | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1700.00 | | Purchased At: | Valley bike | | Strengths: | Takes everything I point it at . The harder you come the easyer you go over it . | | Weaknesses: | Chain is like a thong . Right up there . | | Similar Products Used: | KHS 93 comp Ridged, XT set | | Bike Setup: | Hayes, XT B.B. , Race Face middle chain ring, Tooth Fairy | | Bottom Line: | First 2 rides out {same day} I bent the middle chain ring and the bottom bracket was bent or warped . So i brought it back and the said it was a bent tooth bent it back sent me on my way a week later it wouldnt even come close to staying in the midddle chain ring . Replaced the BB to a xt and put the new cain ring on . Now I'm getting chain suck so bad when im hammering on the middle chain ring on some bumps it gets wedged between the 1'st ring and the swing arm . Im 175 and keep the shock blown up to 160 some times more in the 4.1 travel with the front at a 100 . It goes great up and is a terror on downhill and Wheelie drops . But I still get the wedgie ;) | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John Galea
a Weekend Warrior
from Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Date Reviewed: June 24, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Many | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | Wheels of Bloor | | Strengths: | Geometry | | Weaknesses: | Drivetrain | | Similar Products Used: | DeVinci Chamelion, Specialized Stump Jumper, Gary Fisher MTN 29 | | Bike Setup: | Now XT Rings, bottom bracket and crank | | Bottom Line: | This is an update to my previous review. After some patience to get the part I now have the Bontrager crap replaced with a Shimano XT Bottom bracket, crank and rings. I rode Kelso on the weekend for the first time since the fix. What an amazing difference. Like a few others have said, this was the bike Fisher should have made in the first place. Do not leave the shop with the Bontrager. Even if you have to pay for it! Upgrade it. I also had the LBS adjust the angle on the SD3 brakes and they lock up much less than they were.
All in all, I now totally love this bike. Amazing. Deplorable what Fisher is doing to customers. The inconvenience of having customers deal with their issue. This is the kind of thing that kills the reputation of a company. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Ekim
a Cross Country Rider
from Owings Mills, MD
Date Reviewed: June 21, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | The ones with single track and dirt | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1650.00 | | Purchased At: | Fat Tire Cycle | | Strengths: | Ride,Style,Climbs like a goat,Hayes Disc ROCK, Sweet as Surgar | | Weaknesses: | Hard to adjust rebound on AD-5 rear Shock. Bottoms out on big drops if I dont shoot it full of air, Too rough on the small stuff when I do. Hard to dial in. Hope to take advantage of Cane Creeks offer to trade up to a AD-12 or Cloud Nine. | | Similar Products Used: | 2000 Fisher Joshua F3 | | Bike Setup: | All Stock | | Bottom Line: | I love my Surgar. I havent had the chain suck or shifting problems as discribed by the other reviewers (Lucky I guess) I havent had a miss shift yet (Once I got all the cables adjusted). Had a creaking bottom bracket that needed tighting, a five minute fix at the bike shop. The ride of the Manitou Black is so plush. The whole bike is plush. Will be upgrading the rear shock soon. Climbs like crazy. I keep mine in the 4.1" setting and have no or very little bobbing while climbing. Anyone looking to by a new bike definatly should pay the extra money for Disc! What a huge difference. I would definatly recommend this bike. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Marty
a
from NY
Date Reviewed: June 20, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | skidmore | | Duration Product Used: | 2 Years | | Price Paid: |
$1900.00 | | Purchased At: | The Down Tube | | Strengths: | Suspension, Hayes Hydraulics, Climbs like a champ... | | Weaknesses: | BONTRAGER PARTS BLOW!!!! It's incredible that one can pay so much for a mountain bike to have it donned with such pathetic componentry. I cannot beleive how cheap Bontrager parts are. Let's see, there's the chain suck issue which in which I have had to change out the crank for an XT, my rear hub stopped free-wheeling the thrid time ridden, the front skewer stripped after a dozen rides. As you've read, this is a great bike with very cheap components. | | Bike Setup: | XT BB, XT Crank, XT Hubs | | Bottom Line: | This is a follow up from my first review on this 2001 Sugar 3 disc. Since I've replaced the crank, the bike runs smoothly. I am pleased now but was discouraged and aggravated at all of the changed hardware I've had to put on it. I emailed a factory rep about the chain suck problem and he said that there WASN"T ONE COMPLAINT about it. Right then and there I lost all respect for the company. How can so many people have the same problems with the same bike and not contact the factory?? The guy was obviously lying to me. I bought American and have been burned before. I guess I'm learning my lesson. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Matt White
a Cross Country Rider
from Bozeman, MT
Date Reviewed: June 19, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Truman Gulch | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | Chalet Sports | | Strengths: | Plush ride, pretty good components, sweet frame, etc. | | Weaknesses: | Chain suck... | | Similar Products Used: | Giant XTC NRS2 | | Bike Setup: | Stock, so far:) | | Bottom Line: | I have one thing to say about this bike: It rocks! I'd never ridden full susp. stuff before, and I'm loving this bike. I've had it chain suck on me twice now, which is the only problem. My front fork was also popping out of 80mm and making a bunch of noise, but the shop techs talked to Manitou and they said I wasn't turning the travel knob far enough. Haven't had a problem since! Fisher doesn't get full five chili's cause of the chain suck, but this is still one great bike. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
CJ
a Downhiller
from Vancouver
Date Reviewed: June 18, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Lakeside, Rossland | | Duration Product Used: | Tested or demo'ed only | | Purchased At: | Freewheel cycle, Dundas ON | | Strengths: | SPEED, Light weight, simplicity, geometry, discs, standover, handlling, versitility | | Weaknesses: | Rear shock - Linear to faling rate, no rebound control on a $2500 bike! Manitou lacks Bomber big hit ability and rebound control | | Similar Products Used: | Rocy Element, Specialized FSR, lots of big hit DH and freeride hardtails | | Bike Setup: | Stock Sugar 3+ Disc | | Bottom Line: | After a 3.5hr ride I was still blow away with this bikes overall ability to rip up down, around anything (at least in Ontarios XC conditions). The combination of light weight, discs, indepenant suspension and great geometry was like a revalation. Even with 2,25 tires this bike still accellerated and rolled well while providing a level of grip uncommon with a bike this light. Now I usually ride a 40lb Freeride bike (Norco Fluid with Super T's, awesome bike for BC) so this was a big switch but having riden XC for over a decade on nice bikes I knew this was a great bike.
There are some caviots though if I was to buy one:
Cranks and BB have to go - chainsuck, axle width seems too wide
Rear shock - no rebound, poor big hit performance Get a Fox.
Front shock - plush but... I would prefer A bomber or Fox Float for better rebound control
Not for Northshore or drops. Duh.
Good revision of the original sugar. Next year lets hope Gary swithces to Fox and loses the Bonti cranks, or at least kicks Keith's butt until he fixes em. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
JerryO
a Weekend Warrior
from McDonough Ga USA
Date Reviewed: June 11, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1600.00 | | Purchased At: | Local Bike Shop | | Strengths: | Bike fits like a glove.Perfect balance while riding. | | Weaknesses: | Yep...you guessed it.Chain Suck on hard riding
Taking it to dealer to correct tommorow. | | Similar Products Used: | Paragon,Tassajara | | Bike Setup: | Stock.Just bought it on 6/10/02 | | Bottom Line: | The bike is what I hoped it would be.Smooth and quick.I was suprised at the chainsuck and subsequent scarring of the frame once I started pushing hard on the trail.I went back and upgraded the fork spring to a stiffer unit to compensate for my 215 lb body weight.The stock spring is for lighter riders it seems.
Overall,once the chain suck issue is resolved this bike will rock! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
John Galea
a Weekend Warrior
from Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Date Reviewed: June 11, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | many | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1600.00 | | Purchased At: | Wheels of Bloor | | Strengths: | Excellent geometry, weight distribution and overall bike weight. This bike just feels right! Right at home immediately. | | Weaknesses: | Drive line as discussed ad nausea. | | Similar Products Used: | Devinci Camelion, Specialized Rock Hopper, Gary Fisher MTN 29. | | Bike Setup: | Stock | | Bottom Line: | As previously mentioned this bike has major driveline issues. I asked my LBS to check with Fisher before I bought the bike and Fisher promised this bike did not have the issues.
Out of the shop as I was learning pedals there seemed to no problem. First hard ride, major chain suck, major phantom shifts. Seems either Fisher do not understand the problem or are not admitting it. Bike is not usable in current form.
Spoke with Fisher they now admit the problem, offered to replace crank/BB with Deore. I refused said it was beneath all components on the bike they agreed to upgrade to LX if I would pay the difference, I agreed to split the difference and XT crank and BB are on there way (Yes XT). Hehe. We will see if this fixes the problem otherwise it will be new chain rings or back to the factory for the frame to be checked I guess.
Bottom line don't buy this bike without demanding the BB/crank be changed to shimano. Do not believe them when they say this one does not have it. Not worth the aggravation.
Or better yet find last years Sugar 3 which I wish I had done. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Charles Spruck
a Cross Country Rider
from Vancouver, WA USA
Date Reviewed: June 7, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Siouxon Creek | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1499.00 | | Purchased At: | River City Bicycles | | Strengths: | Great front forks, great geometry, great "feel" great climber, facilitates more risk taking, points in the direction of things to jump, looks great | | Weaknesses: | haven't experienced the chain suck as posted on this site.
Researched and talked with techs. Can't say anything negative at this point.. | | Similar Products Used: | Specialized, | | Bike Setup: | Stock without disks, but after having put my favorite "sticks like glue" tire, GEAX blade, might have to go to an Avid mechanical disk in back because of decreased clearance with stock v brakes. | | Bottom Line: | As a sport class rider/racer moving up to this bike has indeed improved my riding, confidence, and climbing ability. Yes, many of you can afford more and better, but this bike suits me fine. When I met Gary in Portland two summers ago he told me to consider the sugar to eliminate wasted energy on "bobbing." He was right. Also, as a 200 pound (ouch!) 5ft 9inch rider, this bike can take some hits. I am surprized. Look forward to racing it in the masters class by the end of June 02. Yes, I am old enough to be your Dad, but I am hip and trying to stay in shape. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Marc Witolla
a Racer
from Ancaster On. canada
Date Reviewed: June 7, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Gnarly @ hardwood hills or the O cup circut | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | FREEWHEEL CYCLE | | Strengths: | ass kicking super XC frame
BLACK fork rules
| | Weaknesses: | brakes chain suck | | Similar Products Used: | superlight | | Bike Setup: | stock w bontrager Race lite crank no isis
razorblade pads, and easton carbon flatbar,
| | Bottom Line: | this bike rules I raced it in the canada cup last weekend and it performed great.for everybody out there with chainsuck problems its the 02 bontrager cranks just change the crank and youl be OK, I'l never buy anything but a fisher | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Tom Luhr
a Weekend Warrior
from Newark, Del
Date Reviewed: June 5, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Fairhill, Carpenter | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1450.00 | | Purchased At: | Bike Line | | Strengths: | The Sugar 3+ is a good fit for me. Did change the seat out but over all very comfortable. Handling is good, stock tire see ok, but I'm not a competitive rider. | | Weaknesses: | Shifting bad. Frist day I took it out ghost shifting and some, what I think to be chain suck. | | Similar Products Used: | Trek, Canondale Jekyl series | | Bottom Line: | Bike line made good and replace the gear. Works great. Took a 15 mile ride and not a hitch. Very comfortable in any condition and from hard surface to bike trails the bike handle well and is adjustable to those situations. Overall very please with the purchase and the dealer, but only had it a short time. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
pruitt
a Weekend Warrior
from greensboro, NC USA
Date Reviewed: June 1, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Strengths: | When equipped correctly, an AWESOME ride. | | Weaknesses: | The tweaking you have to do to make it right, but that seems to be about 100% of the comments in this thread. | | Bike Setup: | Stock except for Shimano bottom bracket, XT cranks and rings. | | Bottom Line: | This is a follow-up post to my 5/10 review down below. Bottom line: Haven't had ONE missed shift since my dealer replaced the bottom bracket, cranks and rings. On my earlier post I stated I had a Shimano XT bottom bracket; wrong. He replaced it with an XTR bottom bracket. Cranks are the Deore XT 'Hollow Techs'.
It's honestly, now, the bike I wanted to begin with. Interestingly, I went to another Trek dealer to pick up a CamelBak bladder and they sell Treks, but not Fishers. We chatted a little and the subject came up that I have a Sugar 3+ and the problems. He stated that the problems were 'across the board' with Treks, Kleins and Fishers. Guess somebody at corporate pulled a real one in the bottom bracket department. And that's really my gripe about the whole issue with the bike; I'd like to see Trek/Klein/Fisher owe up to the mistake, contact the owners, and admit that they goofed. It would smooth a LOT of issues over, probably on this thread alone, it they'd just go the extra mile and say, 'Hey, we goofed, how can we help?'. Instead, even though I received superlative service from both Fisher corporate and my LBS, I became, like many on this thread, the guinea pig for testing. Something is amiss, I think, with that mentality.
Major thanks to my LBS for being so cool and calming the nerves of someone that was genuinely pissed about spending $1,500 and having a bike shift like a WalMart Murray.
The Sugar 3+ is a GREAT bike in it's price range. Prospective buyers should read EVERY post on this thread. Then, if you want one, make sure you do 2 things. Ride it at the dealership. Don't EVEN trust the shifting till you saddle it and pedal a while. Equally, don't trust a dealer that states, 'Its a new production piece and wasn't affected by those problems'. If Fisher wants that level of trust, let them post something on their website, showing serial numbers of the affected bikes, so you can reasonably trust Fisher again. Lastly, if it is affected, request nothing less than Shimano components to replace the pure JUNK Bontrager equipment. They'll offer you, per their agreement with Fisher, Deore LX components, but hold out for XT or XTR equipment.
One last note: Re-read the threads on here on setting up the Black front shock and the Cane Creek rear. Better yet, take Cane Creek up on their upgrade (runs till July 31) that allows you to go to the Cloud Nine for $250; that's a true bargain.
I'm upgrading my 'Overall' to 5, cause my Sugar is absolutely as sweet as its name, now. But the value is still a 4, cause nobody should have to pay $1,500 for anything and, essentially, replace the 'guts' of it to make it right.
Said it before, and others have amplified it: FISHER (TREK et al) ARE YOU LISTENING?
| | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Ken Cox
a Cross Country Rider
from Newark, DE, USA
Date Reviewed: May 28, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Fair Hill, MD | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Purchased At: | Bike Line | | Strengths: | Wonderful rear suspension design and good geometry. | | Weaknesses: | Gee, has anyone complained about chainsuck and bad shifting? Not to beat a dead horse, but the bike has some issues that we have yet to solve to my satisfaction. | | Similar Products Used: | Fuels, Kleins, pretty much everything in the shop. | | Bike Setup: | Upgraded the fork to a Psylo SL before it left the shop. XT cranks, Race Face riser bars, a great XT wheelset I had 'just laying around', and Panaracer Fire XC tires. | | Bottom Line: | This is my wife's new bike, but I'm the chief mechanic :-)
Pretty similar to other posts. Shifted fine in the stand when it left the shop, but was a total disaster on the first ride - ghost shifting, dropping the chain off the granny ring and chainsuck. Based on her feedback, and what I read online here, I did a major round of upgrading (see Bike Setup above). The XT cranks did improve the front ring shifting, but is isn't perfect - still dropping the chain off the little ring about one out of every 10 shifts in spite of hours of careful tweaking. Take the stock tires off and throw them away - cornering was a joke. The Psylo XL upgrade is worth an extra $100 - it's the best part of the Sugar 2+, and I'm quite jealous of the incredible adjustibility.
Now, with all that aired, I have to say that my wife LOVES the bike, and her riding has improved by an unbelievable amount (she used to ride a Trek VRX). We just returned from a road trip in Western Maryland, and there were only a few of shifting issues despite 2 days of hard riding. I'm taking the bike in to the shop this week to see if I can cure the last of the problems.
Gary Fisher should recall any bikes with problems and offer a free fix if they really want to keep their customers happy. Otherwise, I have to admit that my confidence in the brand is slipping. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Rob Sharples
a Cross Country Rider
from Toronto,Ontario, Canada
Date Reviewed: May 28, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1430.00 | | Purchased At: | TrailBlazer Cycles in Toronto | | Strengths: | Frame, Suspension | | Weaknesses: | CRANKS !!!! With the stock cranks the chain suck that I experienced was ridiculous. | | Similar Products Used: | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp XC | | Bike Setup: | XT Cranks/BB and I am plannig to cut the bars down by about 1/4 inch. Runn the suspension at the 4.1 / 100mm setting front and rear. Increase the rear pressure 15 - 20 lbs over what Fisher recommends. If you weigh more than 170 look for the heavier spring for the front shock. | | Bottom Line: | The bike is incredible, only after replacing the Crank. The first 4 times I rode it with the stock crank I experience chain suck 6 - 8 times. Since changing the crank to and XT ISIS BB I have only chaing suck once, very muddy conditions so I figure that was ok, in 6 rides.
Keep the chain clean, and toss the stock Cranks. With XT cranks it shifts like a dream and this bike now climbs up almost anything. Hills I would not attempt before I am making up. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Dana Thurston
a Weekend Warrior
from Stratham, NH USA
Date Reviewed: May 25, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Pawtuckaway | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1600.00 | | Purchased At: | wheel power | | Strengths: | A HANDLER!!! | | Weaknesses: | Fussy maintanance | | Similar Products Used: | Trek Y, YSL, K2, Cannondale Stupid V | | Bike Setup: | XTR Crank, XTR BB, Easton Cabon post +bar, Flite seat, Hutchinson Mosquito tires | | Bottom Line: | This is a follow up review. I had my bike set up with XTR cranks and BB right at the dealer, the BB is a rebuildable M-950, and I think it's a 112.5 mm. I ride the bejesus out of this thing, and I've never missed a shift, it was perfect from day one. The rear shock really requires proper setup and maintanance. Cane will sell you a valve kit, and you should use the fast compression shim, fast rebound valve (less dampening) and set the air chamber at the smallest setting. Also, very important, replace the o-rings in the white plastic housing in your shock regularly, this is the area that controls the negative spring, and they wear out in 8-10 hours. A clean, lubed shock with new seals will transform the ride from hardail with a shock to the smoothness of an FSR; HUGE DIFF! Also, the hardware store sells this o-ring for 50 cents, so I have a drawer full. One last shock tip; check the fit of the aluminum grommets in the shock eyes, mine were hammered in and not pivoting smoothly. take some Emery cloth to "em and get a proper slip fit if you want your suspension to work. (True of almost every bike I've owned). Overall, the handling of this bike is worth any headache you will overcome, it IS head and shoulders above all the other crap on the market. I love this bike in it's current setup to the point that my girlfriend has accused me of thinking about it during intamacy! GUILTY AS CHARGED!! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Flash
a Weekend Warrior
from Kinnelon, NJ
Date Reviewed: May 20, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Ringwood | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1650.00 | | Purchased At: | LBS | | Strengths: | Durability
disc brakes
geometry | | Weaknesses: | Why should we have to upgrade the drivetrain? Upgrade to make the bike functional should be part of original specs. | | Similar Products Used: | Fuel 90, Adept Comp | | Bike Setup: | XT drivetrain
Panaracer Fire XC's
| | Bottom Line: | I upgraded my cranks/chainrings to XT from the Bontrager crap before the bike left the shop and have had NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER with chainsuck or phantom shifting. I am over 200 lbs and tend to beat the crap out of things - this bike has held up very well to some of the wipeouts I have had.
Definately get the disc brakes for the extra $200. Even with the additional $40 spent on the crankset upgrade, still cheaper than the Fuel 90D.
Full suspention has made me a better rider overall - and the Fisher geometry is great. I can just sit in the saddle,lean forward and crank up some nasty hills my hardtail would never be able to conquer.
For all those concerned about the chainsuck issues - upgrade to XT for $40 bucks - you will be happy you did and you will have a great ride. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Michael Henderson
a Weekend Warrior
from Mount Airy NC USA
Date Reviewed: May 18, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Westwood park | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1650.00 | | Purchased At: | Foothills Cycling | | Bottom Line: | This is a followup post on the one below. After replacing the front crankset,rings,and chain, with shimano components my drivetrain problems have went away. After two rides this week the bike performed like I think it should.If you buy one of these bikes,buy one from a reputable dealer, like I did.I would like to thank Richard at Foothills Cycling for standing behind what he sells ,and for building the bike Gary Fisher should have.He also gave me a decal set to fix the letters on the front shock that was coming off. The bike is wonderful now,very pleasing to ride,and handles great.The $200.00 extra for the hydraulic discs is money well spent.I'll give four chili's for value ,and Five chili's for overall rating, the way the bike is set up NOW.I hope to continue getting good performance out of this bike.The next stop is being sent to the factory. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Chris
a Racer
from Mountain View, CA
Date Reviewed: May 16, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Braile | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1550.00 | | Purchased At: | LBS | | Strengths: | Frame geometry and design. Component group. Rear shock. Wheelset. Hayes disc brakes. Its all good | | Weaknesses: | Manitou Elite Black (bottoms out too easily). Chainsuck...?
IRC backcountry tire sucks as a front. Very nice for a rear. | | Similar Products Used: | Santa Cruz Superlight, Heckler. | | Bike Setup: | Stock except for a WTB Mutanoraptor upfront. | | Bottom Line: | 1st thing to say, I expect to be buried with this bike. It is soooo good. Love full suspension. Im a faster climber and downhiller. Ride feels solid and predictable. Everything about this bike stock is very very raceable, and just plain fun! What a great trail bike even if it never goes to the races. Only component I really would want different is the Manitou (piece of) Black. If this bike came with a Fox or a Marzochi it would be perfect! Now, onto the issue of chainsuck (I wont bore you with the gory details..we'll just say I had to replace a chainring and chain because it was soo bad). This review has been written after my frame was completely replaced (not without factory issues like forgetting to include bushings and disc brake mounts). I understand that early in the production run, they had some bad Bontrager cranksets go out. My frame, however had a rear swing arm pivot that was mis-drilled (causing a faulty chain-line and then the chainsuck). The reason the frame went out this wasy, is that the allignment tool they use to check these things "wasn't accurate enough considering the tight tolerances the new bikes have". I was told they have new machine at the factory to check the alignment of the rear swing-arms to the main frame now. All that said, I would hypothesize that since they just replaced with machine, that several Sugar owners that may have had bad Bontrager cranksets replaced, may still have bad frames! Anyways, I wouldn't let any of this scare you from buying what has to be a really great bike. Fisher will fix these problems (sad that they had to occur, and worse that they arent as forthcoming to their dealers about these issues). But of primary importance, how many bikes on the market today can you do 8 foot stair gaps, or 5 foot log drops on, switch to the 2.8" travel mode the next day and race competitively on? | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Charlie Patterson
a Cross Country Rider
from Topanga
Date Reviewed: May 14, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | backbone | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1650.00 | | Purchased At: | LBS | | Strengths: | Super-smooth ride, Hayes Hydraulics | | Weaknesses: | Shifting problems, rear shock. | | Similar Products Used: | Nada | | Bike Setup: | Stock | | Bottom Line: | Gary Fisher should immediately recall all of these bikes and fix "chain suck" problem. I can't believe that I just paid $1650 for a bike that is unridable!!! I haven't even left pavement on this bike, and the problems are chronic. The chain will constantly pop off the chain rings when the bike's supsension absorbs bumps. The beauty of it is the fact that this problem will not be evident when you test ride the bike in the parking lot of your LBS. It will only start happening when you use this bike for what it was "designed" for: Mountain Biking. DON"T BUY THIS BIKE UNTILL THE 2003's ARRIVE. Believe what you see on these reviews and BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Keith Cummings
a Cross Country Rider
from Greensboro, NC, USA
Date Reviewed: May 13, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1450.00 | | Purchased At: | Mountain Sports Outlet (Silverthorne, CO) | | Strengths: | With the 3+ you get a good set of components and a good suspention package for under $1500 dollars. A couple hundred dollars more and you've got yourself a mean setup. | | Weaknesses: | The front shock is so soft, it feels like I'm riding on a water bed. This is correctable with a $30 firm-ride kit. I ride an XL and would think that the bike would be set up for larger riders.
Everybody's memtioned the drivetrain so I'm not going to get into that. But, couple a bad set of cranks with a misaligned frame and you are in for more than a few headaches. My bike is currently being shipped back to GF to have the frame examined and probably replaced due to misalignment. How does a misaligned frame make it out of the factory? And if they missed such a fundamental spec, what other things could have been overlooked? | | Similar Products Used: | Specialized Stump Jumper FXR | | Bike Setup: | Stock | | Bottom Line: | When you charge $1500 for a bicycle You had better be pretty sure of the quality of your product. I am without a ride because of Fisher's seeming lack of Quality control. The fact that they're still shipping these bikes with malfunctioning drivetrains makes me wonder if they actually care about the riders they are marketing to.
The bike doesn't suck, but for $1500 I expect a good deal of reliability. That is one thing Fisher has not delivered.
I would like to note that the Fisher dealer here in Greensboro has been more than helpful considering I bought my bike in another state. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Michael Henderson
a Weekend Warrior
from mount airy NC
Date Reviewed: May 11, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Westwood/Hobby park | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1650.00 | | Purchased At: | Foothills Cycling | | Strengths: | Bike rides and handles well,when I can ride it.Brakes are very good. | | Weaknesses: | CHAIN SUCK,SHIFTING PROBLEMS.Lettering on front shock comming off.Rear tire dryrotted. | | Similar Products Used: | Trek 4500,GT Timberline,Trek 4900,Giant xtc ds/2,Gary Fisher mamba | | Bike Setup: | Stock sugar 3+ disc except for Panaracer tires | | Bottom Line: | I purchased the bike and immediately started having shifting problems and chain suck.The rear tire had to be replaced because of dryrotting.The chainstay has gouging caused by chain suck, and I feel it is a safety hazzard because the pedals stop all of a sudden, most of the time this happens.The bottom bracket and the 2nd chainring on the front have already been replaced to no avail.It is in the shop now getting all 3 front rings replaced.I expressed extreme displeasure in all of this, and demanded my money back.I was told there was a process of replacing parts I had to follow,and it MAY lead to a new frame BUT no refund.I feel like I'm having a lemon forced on me.I gave up a Giant XTC for this.The bike has been in the shop more than it has been ridden.I'm having to plan my rides around the repairs.The bike shifts fine on the bikestand, but when you get it in the woods,WATCH OUT.Others that ride with me are riding bikes that cost a third of what this one cost, and aren't having any problems.Right now I have a $1650.00 hole in my wallet, and I'm borrowing a bike to ride.Gary PLEASE take note of some of these posts.This has already lost me as a customer.Please do something so you dont lose anymore.I have to think way to hard about shifting.If I can't use all the gears in any configuration I want to,what good are they.If anyone is considering purchasing one PLEASE consider other options until they get these problems fixed.
| | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
pruitt
a Weekend Warrior
from greensboro, NC USA
Date Reviewed: May 10, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | too many to list | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1400.00 | | Purchased At: | Friendly Bike | | Strengths: | Great frame. Parts and pieces fit well together, although I question some of the parts. Very nice full suspension bike. Incredibly quick, easy to put in a line and flick around. Brakes are actually quite good; Cane Creek shock is great, overall. Manitou Blacks are fine if you're under 165 pounds. | | Weaknesses: | Be prepared for tweaking the drivetrain; carefully read the other reviews, but dismiss some of the rants. Fisher dealers are cooperative and go the extra mile for their customers. That said, I would like to have had my Sugar 'perfect' from the get go. I don't think that's too much to expect for something right at $1,500. Something tells me, Gary Fisher isn't aware of the driveline probs, cause I think he'd have a cow. | | Similar Products Used: | None; went from a Raleigh non-suspension straight to the full suspension Sugar. | | Bike Setup: | Stock except for Shimano Front rings, Shimano XT bottom bracket and Shimano XT cranks. | | Bottom Line: | I have to agree with the one reviewer that stated the Sugar 3+ is a bike with awesome potential. It just needs some serious tweaking at the beginning. Now, that didn't/wouldn't stop me from buying one again. I don't know why on earth we cannot buy a Fisher with a TOTAL Shimano setup from stem to stern; well, I do, but it's a corporate thing! Fisher would sell so many more Sugars if they'd just offer Shimano and dispense with the Bontrager BS.
Out of the box, it appeared fine; but I didn't get to shift as it was my first ride with clipless. Took it home, practiced for a couple of days getting into and out of the pedals. No surprises. Took it out the following Monday to ride. No chain suck, but it 'phantom' shifted in the rear from 1 to 2 with abandon. No biggie, I thought, a simple adjustment. But the front. Whole 'nother issue. Big gear, no problem. Go from big to middle, crap shoot if it would even hit. 50% of the time, straight to the little gear. Upshifts from middle to top, 75% of the time it would make it; other 25% of the time it wouldn't or would require some serious force on the shifter (enough to make me think I'd break the shifter).
So I look at it and can confirm that there is truly a misalignment with the bottom bracket probably causing the problem. No techie here, but the angles absolutely didn't look right on the chain. Now here I diverged somewhat from the flamers that review the Sugar. I took it to my dealer, who was completely understanding about it. Then I called Gary Fisher bikes to log the problem. They actually were pretty darn cooperative and even called the dealership while I was on the phone with them. Offered to replace the bottom bracket, cranks and rings with Deore LX, but I opted to spend some more and go Deore XT. Wasn't down that long, as the dealer was replacing two other Sugars similarly.
Shifts fine now, but I'm keeping an eye on it. One reason I'm not so harsh about it is because I'd have gladly paid up to $200 more to get these components in the first place. Suggestion to all who read this: Make sure before you buy that the dealer understands there is a problem with the Sugar's driveline. Some who have posted, actually had the dealership replace the components before they took delivery and that's a good plan. My only gripe is Fisher should stop producing the current Sugar 3+ with Bontrager components. Suggestion to Fisher: Come out with something between the Sugar 3 and Sugar 1. Sugar 1 is spec'ed out correctly, but at over 1,400 more way over budget. Call it a Sugar 'Something Else' and give it Shimano components and get over the Bontrager junk. Other than the Manitou being soft, the other components work well at this price point and the frame is absolutely spot on.
It does have a LOT of potential and I guess I feel like I've paid my dues on getting it right. But I do want a bike I can trust to not miss a shift; that gets old quickly and makes you flinch if you don't have that trust. I DO trust my Sugar, now, but it should've worked like this from the beginning. Like most reviews here, 4 chili's for great bike overall, losing one to the hassle of the initial setup. That should speak volumes for the loyalty of Fisher owners, but Gary better not pull another one like this in the future. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Brian
a Cross Country Rider
from PA
Date Reviewed: May 9, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | a few ups and a few downs | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1400.00 | | Purchased At: | Bike Hub | | Strengths: | Lightweight, frame | | Weaknesses: | Blowtrager products | | Similar Products Used: | Giant NRS2 | | Bike Setup: | Stock except for several problems areas | | Bottom Line: | Had some serious chain suck problems. The bike shifts swell on the stand but watch out on the trail. I sincerely hope Bontrager and Gary Fisher are reading all these reviews cause there's way too many of us having the same shifting troubles.
Bent the middle chainring, not to mention a few chain links due to suckage. It's bad enough to get chain suck I think we'd all agree. But when the chain gets lodged so badly between the frame and chainring that you need to remove links to undo it, there's a real problem.
The LBS tried to add a spacer but suck was relentless. They replaced the Bontrager nonsense with an XT (I ponied up $32 cause they were going to do an LX) and the problems have almost disappeared. Although I'm keeping a close eye on the way I shift and checking bolt tightness, tolerances etc. I shouldn't have to be so wary on the trail, there's other things requring my attention...
I would say the following to anyone reading this: Ride the Sugar 3+ but also ride a Giant NRS2. Do your homework on both and make a decision. I'm mostly pleased with the Sugar but I'm not sure the frame is that much better than the Giant's to put up with the kind of shifting problems I've had. Not to mention the Giant has disc brakes and adjustable rear damping for the same price.
I'm gonna keep riding and hopefully I'll fall in love with this bike. If not, I'll have no problem shopping around for a trade. Good luck :) | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Adam Cunningham
a Cross Country Rider
from Englewood, CO
Date Reviewed: May 8, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | To many to list | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1200.00 | | Purchased At: | SuperGo | | Strengths: | Good deal for the money. I like the adjustability in the suspension and stiffness of the bike. | | Weaknesses: | DRIVETRAIN! I have had problems with chain suck and have damaged my chainstay. | | Similar Products Used: | Tested Specialized, GT, Jamis, and Rocky Mt but the Fisher just felt better. | | Bike Setup: | Stock with Mavic Crossroc wheels and Avid Mechanical Discs. Looking at either Race Face or XT cranks and BB. | | Bottom Line: | I travel the Rocky Mountains for work and take my bike with me. I get to ride in a lot of different climates and terrain and so far this bike has held up great.
For the price I paid a great bike. Very comfortable ride and I have found that I am now completing trails quicker than with my hard tail. Impressed with the bikes cornering, downhill, and climbing characteristics. I have punished the bike in a lot of different conditions and the only issue is that at least once a ride the chain gets sucked up between the chainstay and small ring. The chainstay is getting pretty beat up but from everything I've read the new cranks and bb should help with that.
Overall it is a good bike, would be a great bike if not for the Drivetrain issues. It can take whatever you dish out and come back for more. The disc brakes make a huge difference and I would suggest them to anyone who is riding tough trails with steep downhills. The control is unbeatable for the money. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
scott fidrych
a Weekend Warrior
from Colchester, Ct
Date Reviewed: May 2, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Meshomasic | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1350.00 | | Strengths: | handles really well for an XL frame, climbs like a goat with next to no bob, screams downhills - very plush in the 4.1" setting, Black fork - quite stiff even at 4" travel | | Weaknesses: | BB, bontrager cranks, tires suck on wet terrain, | | Similar Products Used: | trek fuel, GT i-drive | | Bike Setup: | stock except for BB, will upgrade to XT drivetrain soon | | Bottom Line: | I read alot about chain suck with this bike. You must change BB from the stock 73 x 113 to a smaller 73 x 110 and the chain will no longer get trapped between frame and chainrings. the other reason it chain sucks is dirty chains!! the mud and crap doesn't let the chain fall off the chainrings as it revolves....so keep the chain clean. this is probably also due to the bontrager crap. I haven't had nearly the problems with it as the rest of the reviewers have, but that's the reason. Nobody builds a better drivetrain than shimano, so if you really want to save your bike upgrade. Black fork is great except for the wimpy stock spring. i could compress the full 4" just by pushing down on it. Ask for the heavier spring if you're over 180lbs. I ride and live on the east coast and have beaten the snot out of this bike on rocky, rocky trails and it's performed superiorly. Yes fisher should have known better with the BB size and using bontrager components. (your BB should be replaced free because of manufacture's defect)Despite the early problems I'm 100% psyched with this bike, and I wouldn't trade it in. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
scott wilber
a Weekend Warrior
from fairfield, ca
Date Reviewed: April 28, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | rockville | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1300.00 | | Strengths: | Soft ride and handles great from climbing to down hill. I was very pleased with the ride when I first got it. I liked the adjustments on the front and rear suspension. | | Weaknesses: | I have broken four chaines in 7 monthes. The flex of the rear shock at 4.1 inches sucks the chain into the frame by the front crank. I have talked to my bicycle dealer and he is attempting to contact Gary Fisher to find out the problem. There is rumor of this being a problem of the design. | | Bottom Line: | Watch out for chain sucking. At this point, I wouldn't buy this bike until the problem is resolved! | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Tom
a Cross Country Rider
from Boston, MA
Date Reviewed: April 26, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Lynn Woods | | Duration Product Used: | Tested or demo'ed only | | Price Paid: |
$1400.00 | | Purchased At: | Soon..very soon! | | Strengths: | It's a Fisher! Ride, geometry, components | | Weaknesses: | None found yet..but will re-post when I own the bike..did notice the decals could have been applied to the frame a little better..no big deal! | | Similar Products Used: | Specialized stumpjumper FSR XC, Trek Fuel 90, Giant NRS, Tomac 98 Special..hmm what else did I test ride!! | | Bike Setup: | Stock but with 536 pedals..keeping the Bontrager crank..for now...we'll see! | | Bottom Line: | Hey..just a note! Went to test ride my new bike today and 2 things.
They no longer use the stick on letters on the Manitou Black..just plain old decals! Won't fall off but don't look as cool. As far as ghost shifting issues, it looked like Fisher had shipped this (medium) bike with a rear derailleur cable for a small. The cable was tight up against the rear shock causing it to rub, but also causing it to ghost shift when the suspension compressed.
If anyone is having a rear shifting issue, check this out! It wasn't evident in the 2.8" travel mode, but in the 4.1 due to the repositioning, it was a problem..My LBS is changing the cable before I pick it up..but just a note to all out there!
Good luck | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Bernard Feinauer
a Weekend Warrior
from Cape Town, South Africa
Date Reviewed: April 25, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Tokai forest (Cape Town) | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$2000.00 | | Purchased At: | Bowman cycles | | Strengths: | Strong frame, Genesis geometry, great brakes | | Weaknesses: | Occational chain suck, Decals coming off Manitou front shock | | Similar Products Used: | Fischer Sugar 2 (2000 model) | | Bike Setup: | Standard Sugar 3+ with Shimano XT hydraulic disc brakes and Rolf Dolomite wheelset, platform pedals | | Bottom Line: | My previous bike was the standard Sugar 2. A brilliant bike for the XC racer, but seeing that I'm more interested in doing tight single track, semi down hill stuff, trails etc, I quickly realised that this wasn't the bike for me. The ride was just a little bit too harsh. And then along came the Sugar+. Problem solved.
This is the perfect bike for the guy who wants to ride it all. I can still do the odd race here and there without taking too much punishment and on the other hand I can attack the harshest terrains on the planet without the bike biting me in the ass.
The genesis geometry works perfectly for me being quite tall and puts me further behind the BB, making steep down hill sections a breeze. The Manitou Black and Cane Creek shocks work perfectly too give me the smooth ride I was looking for without taking too much of the energy away. I had hydraulic discs fitted as I think it's essential for riding the tight and twisty stuff. The Shimano XT's just work brilliantly and I can really recommend spending the extra cash.
So ja,it's a brilliant bike and I can really recommend it for anyone who's looking for the one bike to do it all with. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Eric
a Weekend Warrior
from La Habra, ca. usa
Date Reviewed: April 15, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | gooseberry | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$900.00 | | Purchased At: | local shop | | Strengths: | i point the bike and it goes. frame is worth the price alone. stiff. | | Weaknesses: | chain suck was a problem but i have resolved the problem. | | Similar Products Used: | specialized, trek, klien | | Bike Setup: | added heavy duty springs to front shock. other wise stock | | Bottom Line: | Wish I would have bought a better sugar wasnt sure how much I was going to get back into mtn biking. I had a problem with chain suck when shifting into small chain ring under torque. Now when im climbing I ease up to shift into small chainring, and I keep the chain nice and oiled. I usually bike in dry conditions and that was one of the causes.
This bike is one durable bike. Im an agressive downhiller and jumper. I had one problem with the rear suspension. The dealer said I blew a seal. I told him I wasnt that kinda guy. He didnt get it either. Other than that this bike has taken my punishments and kept moving. I'm 250 pounds, this bike doesnt even blink when I come off a jump.
This bike continues to surprise me. I have had some big crashes and the bike still treats me well.
The sugar is sweet.
| | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
DJ
a Cross Country Rider
from Fredericton, NB, Canada
Date Reviewed: April 8, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Gypsum Mines, Hillborough | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1600.00 | | Purchased At: | Radical Edge | | Strengths: | Stability, climbing, braking (have discs) | | Weaknesses: | A lot of gear tuning. | | Similar Products Used: | Trek Fuel 90 | | Bike Setup: | Stock+ Hayes Hydraulic disc brakes (a must have for this bike) | | Bottom Line: | Very impressed with the stability at full speed, expecially drops and jumps. Shocks can be adjusted every way since tuesday. I've been out in slop, snow, street, single track. No major complaints. This bike does need a lot of fine tuning just to get it where you want. I had a lot of phantom shifting at first but once I tuned it up and cleaned the caked mud off the rear derailer and chain, it rode great. Price is a bit steep but I have no regrets. Definitely tops Fuel 90. Great transition bike from hardtail. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Bert Boutte
a Weekend Warrior
from Lafayette, Louisiana
Date Reviewed: April 6, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Chicot, Kincaid | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1000.00 | | Purchased At: | Bicycle Company Lafayette | | Strengths: | great sturdy feel, like the tires, works wonders on nasty roots | | Weaknesses: | don't have any yet | | Similar Products Used: | Trek | | Bike Setup: | stock ( including the Bontranger crank) | | Bottom Line: | I was lucky enough to obtain this bike from a customer who couldn't stand it. After a little tweaking (perhaps if the person read the owners manual), it felt great! Feels way more solid then my Trek, which is funny because Trek owns Fisher. I haven't encountered any problems with the crank, but then again I don't think I'm as good as the rest of the writers. If you are a fresh rider and loves mountain biking, take a close look at this bike. I would agree that the $1,700 price tag is a little steep, but if you ever come across a sweet deal, then Sugar is definitly the flavor. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Dana Thurston
a Weekend Warrior
from Portsmouth NH USA
Date Reviewed: March 30, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Mt. A | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1600.00 | | Purchased At: | Wheel Power | | Strengths: | Good Handler | | Weaknesses: | Needs some tweeking | | Similar Products Used: | Trek Y, YSL, Pro flex | | Bike Setup: | XTR crank and BB, Hutchinson Tires, Easton Carbon post + bars, Flite seat, Hayes Discs | | Bottom Line: | If you own or want to own a Sugar, READ THIS.....
A properly set up Sugar is THE bike. Stock, it blows. I bought my bike at the LBS, and before picking it up made the following changes: XTR cranks and BB, a must; my bike has shifted and performed flawlessly and the chain is aligned perfectly. Heavier springs up front if you are over 165 lbs, the stockers are slack. I swithed to Easton carbon bars and post, put on the old flite saddle and switched to Hutchinson mosquitos. Also, get a disc model. For 200 bannanas it's a bargain and they really work well on this frame. Now for the rear suspension. THe stock set up on the Cane Creek is way off. The ad-5 is quite tunable, but it must be disassembled to change it. Call Cane and get a tuning kit (valves+shims) and a seal kit. Most of the seals will be bad by the second ride due to sloppy assembly. If your shock seems sticky at the top of it's stroke, and "tops out" with a clunk, you have a bad seal leaking out the negative chamber. Take the shock apart (lots of little parts, be careful) Reduce the air volume plate to make the shock more progressive, install a bigger rebound valve to speed it up (I actually drilled the biggist one for more rebound) and a thinner compression shim to speed that up, too. Also check the bushing at either end, mine were jammed in and not moving, requireing me to remove .001". It really is a pain in the balls, luckily I'm a machinist and have the measurement equip. and tools for this stuff. My bike now rides like a caddy, shifts like a porshe, handles beutifully in all situations, climbs like a horny goat and weighs a pound less than a stocker.
Take my advise on this one, If you buy the sugar you need at very least: XTR crank and BB, get it with discs, and take the time to set up the shock right and you will absolutely love this bike. I am one fussy barsterd and I couldn't be happier. four piles due to the complications. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
H-Flo
a Cross Country Rider
from So-Cal
Date Reviewed: March 28, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Elfin | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1460.00 | | Purchased At: | Local Shop | | Strengths: | my sugar feels solid has decent entry components that just beg to be changed out. I love my Manitou Black fork. The Cane Creek AD5 has performed admirably. | | Weaknesses: | Well the cranks definitely are not as stiff as i would want them and could use upgrading. Brakes did not meet my standards, very weak. Chainsuck, did anyone mention chainsuck, jeezuz chrizzed, especially when you're charging up a friggin huge climb then all of a sudden... Would someone at Friggin fisher solve the problem and either 1) stand by their product or 2) give all owners of a sugar 3+ some means of remedying this problem. The paint or should i say the aluminum is all chewed up, F#*&^@! Great, thanks alot!!! | | Similar Products Used: | none | | Bike Setup: | upgraded->Brakes=Hope Mini, Wheelset=Mavic317 with 2002XT Hubs, Cassette=XT, Chain=XTR-Dura | | Bottom Line: | Bottom line is you really get a great deal of bike for the price, well at least i think. The frame is tough and feels solid especially the way i pound on it(i'm 5'9" 192lbs). Original wheelset was pretty good (Bontrager Selects) but wanted something buffer with disc compatibility, strength, and lightweight. The new 2002 XT disc hubs shaved some weight from last years model.
Anyhow straight from the box the bike rocks, with the exception of the unforgiveable chainsuck. i've changed the chain and the cassette and haven't had a reoccurrence of the problem, although i've improved my shifting and pedaling techniques because i've been sketchy about chainsuck, maybe what the other dude said about bb size might be the solution, i'll have to check in on that. Here's the thing for the price you pay i don't think you really can complain, although i have, but nowadays the price of bikes are pretty outrageous so you just have to live with the old saying, you get what you pay for. I love the Frame on the Sugar3+, just a few component changes and you will be even more pleased. For me upgrading has become a hobby | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
DADIO OF THE TRAILIO
a Cross Country Rider
from MESA AZ
Date Reviewed: March 24, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | HAWES RD MINESHAFT | | Duration Product Used: | 3 months | | Price Paid: |
$1399.00 | | Purchased At: | SUPERGO | | Strengths: | Versatility stiff or plush ride,reasonable price | | Weaknesses: | some shifting dramas, silly crank, no rebound control on rear shock and gushy 100mm setting on the front | | Similar Products Used: | goofydale w/mars shock & xt | | Bike Setup: | xt all around/monkeylite dh bar custom length | | Bottom Line: | I wont bs you guys this bike is no out of the box winner for joe new rider.I got this bike knowing i needed a bike that could take the punishment I know my 210lb 6'4"frame can dish out.I tested just about every kind of bike in this category and price range and felt like this was my bike.I found peace with cainsuck problems through proper front derailer adj and an xt crank.I dont know if I can get stiffer 100 mm springs for the front but that would be a nice upgrade. I mostly run the 2.3setting in the rear and the 80mm sett for the front I can set up this bike to be very stiff or go with the 4.6 rear setting and 100mm front on those days I need the travel. Also I run the rear shock setting about 10 psi more than spec just personal preference.
I wont kid around the chain suck issue had me down for a couple of rides and I dont recomend the bonty crank for anything more than a glorified huffy;but i get alot o love from my shugar I recomend this bike to the fella who is mechanically inclined and tough on his bike If you want love out of a box look at something else.
| | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Kris
a Cross Country Rider
from Fruita, CO
Date Reviewed: March 15, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Strengths: | How to fix the sugar chain suck | | Weaknesses: | Chain line | | Similar Products Used: | Lots | | Bike Setup: | You need to fix the chain line | | Bottom Line: | To get the sugar + to shift well you need to change the bottom bracket. The stock bike comes with a spindle length of 113, to get it to shift well you need to put a bb with a 110. This will fix the the chain suck and make your bikes rideable. If you talk to you dealer they should call fisher and get them to warranty replace the bb.
Good luck,
Kris | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Scott Thomson
a Weekend Warrior
from Hood River, OR
Date Reviewed: March 12, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1700.00 | | Purchased At: | Discover Bikes | | Strengths: | Ride comfort, Braking effectiveness, fit | | Weaknesses: | None so far | | Similar Products Used: | test rode, trek fuel 90, Specialized FSR, Cannondale Jekyl. Demo-ed Sugar 4+ | | Bike Setup: | Stock Sugar 3+ Disc | | Bottom Line: | I have about 15 two hour rides, most in nasty weather muddy trails. Here's my experince thusfar...First 6 rides out of shop, bike performed well, no unusual shifting problems. Hosed bike every ride / lubed chain couple of times. 7 th ride, started to notice shifting problems, then halfway through... major chainsuck. Ended up coasting out of the canyon.
Chainsuck was so bad, bent my middle chainrink. Back to LBS who replaced the chainrink (with different chainrink).
In the meantime, I invested in a Park Cyclone chaincleaner and changed my lube to Prolink.
Now after each ride (major mudfests) I have been hosing, quick chain scrub, relube. In the past 7 rides (14-16 hrs ride time) I haven't missed one shift.
I agree that there are some close tolerances here, but a little more attention to the drivetrain has been all thats needed to avoid further problems. And all in all, I think the bike ROCKS... | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
anthony branch
a Cross Country Rider
from LAS VEGAS
Date Reviewed: March 3, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 1 Year | | Price Paid: |
$1300.00 | | Purchased At: | COPELANDS SPORTS | | Strengths: | LIGHT WEIGHT | | Weaknesses: | SHIFTING PROBLEMS | | Similar Products Used: | TREK | | Bike Setup: | STOCK | | Bottom Line: | I HAVE OWNED A SUGAR 3 (2001) FOR A YEAR AND IT HAS BEEN TO THE SHOP "8 TIMES" FOR THE SAME SHIFTING PROBLEM. FISHER EXPLAINED THAT THEY HAD A BAD SET OF CENTER CHAINRINGS SO THEY REPLACED IT. IT STILL SUCKS. I HAVE GONE THROUGH TWO CHAINS IN A YEAR AND IT HAS BEEN AT THE SHOP ON IT'S SECOND WEEK AFTER I REQUESTED A FACTORY REP LOOK AT IT. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Matt Myers
a Weekend Warrior
from Lititz,PA USA
Date Reviewed: March 1, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | Camp Mack | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1300.00 | | Purchased At: | Green Mountain | | Strengths: | It's blue. | | Weaknesses: | Chain problems at first. Removed two links and it was better for 1/2 a ride until a small stick found it could bend/break the cheap chain. Replaced with shimano XTR/Dura..somthing unit and it shifts MUCH better. The chain suck I fixed by not cross chaining?? The Fork..every thing I read about the Black said it was plush...plush = soft. The manual stated that on 100mm the sag should be about 22mm or so and I checked mine and it was at 33mm ok..ok I realize that a 30 year old 5' 11" and 195lb person is not the same as a typical xc racer, but this is not good. I called Answer and they said that "someone with my weight should BUY the optional heavy spring" so I will be purchasing the heavy spring and see if that helps. | | Similar Products Used: | GT steel frame Palomar..ah my first bike..lasted 3 months of riding.
Tested:
FSR-XC pro
Fuel 90
My friend's Mt. Tam.....I wish I would have bought one like that. | | Bike Setup: | Stock other then the chain. | | Bottom Line: | I like it....so far. This is my first real bike, and am I am just getting into the sport. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
kornphlake
a
from Provo, Ut.
Date Reviewed: February 21, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | Tested or demo'ed only | | Price Paid: |
$1500.00 | | Purchased At: | Aardvark cycles | | Strengths: | useable, solid feeling, not like other fragile feeling cross country frames. | | Weaknesses: | Wheels don't seem very strong for a 4" travel bike, Cranks as noted by others, chain suck. | | Similar Products Used: | American Eagle Spokane, DB Sorrento. | | Bike Setup: | stock!!! | | Bottom Line: | The bike was fun to ride and got me over things my hardtail wouldn't, it was a little flexy and the chain clattered more than necessary, I am convinced that I want a full suspension bike after a day of riding the sugar 3+ but I am not convinced that the Sugar is the bike for me. Get a new crank, wheelset and some disc brakes along with a coil over shock and it may be a winner. The price seems a little steep but then again what do you get for 1500 these days? At least it does have good components and a decent fork even if the compression dampening knob doesn't do much that I could notice. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
PCB
a Cross Country Rider
from Knoxville, TN
Date Reviewed: February 11, 2002 | | Duration Product Used: | 6 months | | Price Paid: |
$1800.00 | | Purchased At: | Scheller's Lexington, KY | | Weaknesses: | CHAIN SUCK | | Bottom Line: | This is an update to a previous review. I am on my second Sugar 3+ with a non-Bontrager crankset and the bike STILL chainsucks randonly during a typical (mellow) ride. I live with a bike mechanic who has spent the last 6 months trying to fine tune this pig with zero positive results. The bike DOES shift better than the first LEMON sugar that I had, but its performance is still not acceptable. We are at a loss. This bike is horrible. You have to think WAY TO HARD about shifting. Last time I checked, mtn, biking was supposed to be fun. I will never buy another SUGAR or FISHER. This one is my first and my last. If I thought I could return the bike for a refund, I would. The bike is completely non-tuneable and dangerous. The chain suck is outrageous and non-predictable. Last time I was generous with 3 chilis, now I give one. One Chile for a pretty lame problematic bike. Oh, and adjustable travel...what a gimic. I am a fool for falling for it. Who would ride in 2.1 when you have the option of 3.8......??? | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Chris
a Cross Country Rider
from Moorpark, CA. USA
Date Reviewed: February 8, 2002 | | Favorite Trail: | just about anything | | Duration Product Used: | Less than 1 month | | Price Paid: |
$1200.00 | | Purchased At: | Supergo | | Strengths: | Good quality frame and rear suspension function well. | | Weaknesses: | The Black fork is not set up for my size. I'm 6' 4' and 220 lbs and the fork is near bottomed out much of the time this has lead to uncertain steering and less than desirable overall ride characteristics. Brakes are very week right now, could need more breakin but I doubt it. I'll change out the pads before next ride. I'm not sure about the tires, seem a little fat and not great traction. | | Similar Products Used: | Specialized FSR. Gary Fisher hard tail was my previous ride. | | Bike Setup: | Stock | | Bottom Line: | I like the bike but I am disappointed in the front suspension. The frame is a little bit shorter than my hardtail of the same "XL" size which suprised me. | | Value Rating:Overall Rating: |
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