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White Brothers
Judd Springs
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Submitted by
Byron Takeuchi
a Weekend Warrior
from San Gabriel, CA 91776
Date Reviewed: July 11, 2001 | | Favorite Trail: | Gabrielino Rim Trail | | Duration Product Used: | More than 3 years | | Purchased At: | Supergo | | Bike Setup: | Gt STS, Judy XL, Super Deluxe Shock, Race Face LP, XTR r, XT f, XT v-brakes, 517-xtr wheels w/ IRC Missles. | | Bottom Line: | It's like night and day compared to the stock springs and elastomers. I weigh in at about 195 lbs and like to ride hard, so the stock springs were too soft and pogoey for me | Value Rating: Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Bicky
a Cross-Country Rider
from Montana
Date Reviewed: June 3, 1999 | | Favorite Trail: |
Nunya | | Duration Product Used: |
2 Years | | Strengths: |
very lively | | Weaknesses: |
bottoming and topping out | | Similar Products Used: |
stock rock shox TypeII
many oyher suspension forks | | Bike Setup: |
Dagger FSI
97 Judy | | Bottom Line: | I am always looking at the new forks, but I have not been convinced as of yet to replace my 97 Judy with the Judd springs and the Hardbody cartridge. I have the DH springs because I weigh over 200 pounds. Anyways, because I can not find a fork that offers as lively a feel as mine, I think I will wait until this fork trashes out on me before I will lay down the cash on a new fork. I am fairly convinced that forks will be even better then they are now. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
YoungTom
a cross-country rider
from VA
Date Reviewed: February 24, 1999 | | Bottom Line: |
Best thing I've ever done to my fork. Did have some trouble with the fit for my Answer SX but was able to work around it by using a soft 2 in spring on the right side. You can use the stock elasomer but I found it put to much tention on the fork and effected the damping. I also put in 10 weight oil now my fork rides as plush as my friends Marzucci Bomer. No Shit this is the way to go. | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Schwinnman
a cross-country rider
from New York
Date Reviewed: June 13, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I can't say enough about these springs. They turned my formerly lame Rock Shox Judy XC into an awesome set of forks. Great rebound no more pogo stick feel and they allow me to get the full 3 inches of travel out of the fork. I matched these springs with the hardbody plus cartridge and the wipers to increase my fork to travel and reduce stiction. Way to go White Bros.!!!!!!! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
An Nguyen
a weekend warrior
from Union City
Date Reviewed: May 8, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I had the opportunity to read many reviews of different upgraded suspesion kits.
I suggest to all the warrior out there to consider the following factors before buying an upgraded suspension kit. I am an engineer
and specialized in shock and vibration controls and I would like to share some of my knowledge to mountain
bikers. I look for the following factors:
1)Performance 2)Reliability 3)Product Safety 4)Price 5)How easy installing
6)maintenance cost.
Performance: Bare Coil spring in any shape and size is an energy storage system
with little to no damping. It means the more energy you put in then the harder it will rebound and the result is the energy stored
transmitting to your arms and you will feel big shock with washboard and tiring with long distance ride. Coil spring is reliable
product but it will rough on your fork and reduce the wall thickness of your fork and later it will create safety concern on the fork's
strength. It 's better to wrap your coil spring
with some elastomer product.An Oil Damper by itself is a useless mechanism because it has no muscle to return to its original position after being compressed
that is why it has to be connected to coil spring. The performance of oil damper and coil spring connected can create a good
damping system that can absorb a big hit but it will bottom out after a series of big hits due to slowly response of oil flowing
throught valves.Oil damper is not a reliable product caused by explose of oil seal. You imagine
dropping down your bike from 4 to 5 feet height and your seal bursted due to extremly high pressure exerted on the seal then the
damping of your fork is gone then safety becomes an important factor. I suggest that with oil damper or air
damper/air spring combination you should avoid hard hits and washboard. Super Strut shows good performance, respond quickly to big hits and small hits and showed no bottom out, reliable product
because no leaking oil or air. It is simple design and required almost no maintenance and it is a safe product.
The high damping polymer bonded very well to the coil spring and control both
up and down motions.
I enjoy the performance of Super Strut and the reliability plus free maintenance and the safety of product but I do not like the price
$119. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Amin
a weekend warrior
from Malaysia
Date Reviewed: April 29, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
the main reason i bought the judd springs was because the stock type two springs in my judy dh was too hard even with the short spacers. after installing the judds things were alot softer but not what i expected. the rebound was a bit too harsh and it still wasn't soft enough. but it was an improvement from the dump elastomers and the last longer too. installation was also a snap. | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jeff Wu
a downhiller
from Hsin Chu, Taiwan
Date Reviewed: February 4, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
These springs do work better than the stock MCU bumpers, but they weren't as good as I expected them to be. I bought the standard springs, but they were too soft for my 61kg weight. My '96 Judy XC bottomed out harsher than before. The rebound was way too fast on technical downhills. One thing it did alot better than the MCUs was that it absorbed repetitive hits better. The forks become livelier and plusher with the springs. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Chris
a weekend warrior
from Los Angeles
Date Reviewed: January 21, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
I put these in my Manatou 4 and it transformed this shock into an all around winner.
It is much plsher than my Rock Shock Judy DH even though it has much less travel.
I can ride over obstacles at low speed without loosing my balance. I try the same
stretch of trail with the Judy and I invariably have to put my foot down. The Judy
has dirt work springs too. These work as advertised and fit properly. I simply cut a
discarded bumper and make it into a preload spacer. My only complaint is there is not mention
of this procedure in the otherwise complete instructions (-1 chili). | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jason
a weekend warrior
from Singapore
Date Reviewed: January 8, 1998 | | Bottom Line: |
After installing the Judd Springs, my RST Mozo became responsive overnight. The feeling and handling was much better than Speedsprings and the travel of my fork went all the way which in the past never did before. The setup of the spring was easy. Though the price of Judd spings are the same for Speedsprings, I still chose it because of its known reliability and performance. I would say the greatest upgrade for a fork like RST. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Wayne
a cross-country rider
from La Verne, CA
Date Reviewed: December 4, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
Great upgrade. These made a big difference for my Mach 5 SX -- better performance on small and big hits. It's great not having to worry about split elastomers anymore. Like other have reported though, I blew a rebound damper and had to get a new one from Manitou. Hope it doesn't happen again. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
bruce shickmanter
a weekend warrior
from LENOX,MA
Date Reviewed: October 17, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
I am a 200 lb hard rider and I found the judd springs to be a poor combination with my 1996 judy xc. unfortunately it was very much like an undamped pogo stick.I took a nasty crash on familar territory and in retrospect realize ( along with my local bike shop) that some kind of damping cartridge is advisable along with the springs.I will say that the springs definitely improve the travel of the shock but its not worth the loss of control.I may try it again with a reise cartridge on the dummy side.I hope this prevents some crashes! | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Jeff Russo
a cross-country rider
from Chicago
Date Reviewed: October 8, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
They were a great improvement for my 97' RockShox. Very responsive. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Anders
a cross-country rider
from Sweden
Date Reviewed: October 3, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
Great upgrade for my Judy SL. Much, much better than the elastomers. I'm 73 kg
(~161 lbs) and the standard spring are perfect for me (using 63 mm travel).
Kind of expensive though... | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Marky
a racer
from Brockville, Ontario
Date Reviewed: October 1, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
Excellent upgrade for my Mach 5SX. As stated by others the small bump response is a hundred times better and the feel is much improved. The fork now seems to keep the front tire more connected with the trail. A slight weight hit but any weight freak (my self included!) will agree it's worth the added weight. Elastomers also suffer in the cold weather and up here in Canada that's important so I really notice the improvement in the spring and fall. Upgrade now!!! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Dave
a racer
from Mi
Date Reviewed: July 28, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
These were an excellent addition to my Mach 5 SX. The small bump response is so much better than the elastomer stack. It isn't even close. I have yet to bottom out the fork with these springs. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Greg
a cross-country rider
from Monterey
Date Reviewed: June 23, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
These things are awesome. The turned my judy into a good fork. I'm now bombing down every trial I can find. Too bad Rock Shox doesn't put these in at the factory. The work so much better then the elastomers. Just now wish it would stop leaking oil. My LBS guy told my I should try running one spring and one elastomer. I think I'll try that for a while. Anyway, these things kick butt. 5 peppers! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Niklas Ingvar-Nilsson
a weekend warrior
from Uppsala, Sweden
Date Reviewed: March 13, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
Hey these are nice in crosscountry and marvelous in downhill. Just think a while. How many cars and motorcycles use elastomer in their suspension? Well, I can´t think of anybody. Use springs and put your elastomers in the nearest dump. You will se a tremendous improvement. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Hugo Teixeria
a cross-country rider
from San Jose, CA
Date Reviewed: March 3, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
This is the best upgrade of bought for my bike yet. Before I had some cheap elastomers in my mach 5 comp xc. The springs are just so resonsive and smooth. They make the elastomers feel like a rigid fork. The only thing is the need for damping. W/O damping they rebound like crazy. A little piece of elastomer helps a bit. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
rick
a racer
from PA
Date Reviewed: January 7, 1997 | | Bottom Line: |
I have the White Bros total upgrade package, springs and cartridge. In fact I have two of them, one in a Judy FSX and another in a XC. Nothing compares to the upgrade !!!! Coming from a motorcycle background, the dampening and rebound adjustabilty are superb. Once they are set-up for your weight and riding style you shouldn't have to change anything. The difference between stock and upgraded is like night and day. I wouldn't even ride my new bike with the XC until the White Bros stuff came !!!!! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Mark P
a cross-country rider
from Colorado
Date Reviewed: October 7, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
The Judd springs are one of the best upgrades I have invested in. The install was quick and no hassle. The Judy XC is now much smoother and really eats up the small bumps and washboards as well as the major hits. I am light (140 lbs) but I opted to go with the standard springs because I was told the springs may soften a bit. Even if they do not soften, I am very happy with the standards. I would recommend this product to anyone who rides on a regular basis!! | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Mike Peck
a racer
from Boulder
Date Reviewed: July 15, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
A short story. I put the Speed Springs brand springs in first and was not too impressed. Then I noticed that the weight/color code recommendation on the front of the box was different than the smaller print recomendations on the back. I had the wrong color springs for my (at the time)205 lbs! The blue colored springs were rated for a 190 lb guy max. Even on washboards they bottomed out. Performance(untill James the mechanic, now on the Grundig tour with Trek, convinced me to try again after many bad experiences and I had sworn I'd never go there again)gladly refunded my $, I then bought the JUDDS (Performance doesnt carry them though). Due to my prior weight to spring ratio fiasco I took the advice offered and chose the firmer spring for my weight. At first I thought #$%@^ I wasted money again buying what someone else said! but 100 feet down the trail I thought,this is a great improvement! I could stand and crank without bobing, could'nt with the MCUs. Washboard!
bump reaction was great, big hits were great, WOW!
Compared to the Speed Springs brand I really liked the washer/plugs on both ends much better on the JUDDS, fit was better. They are heavier but untill I cut some grams off me I have no grounds to complain. Thats what I think. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Mike
a downhiller
from California
Date Reviewed: July 4, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
This is a nice upgrade from the stock Judy cartridge. As opposed to the stock Rock Shox cartridge, the White Bros. adjusts the rebound damping as well as the compression damping. There is also a noticable improvement in the action of the travel. It is a much smmother travel stroke than that of the stock cartridge. Also, it appears to be much more sturdy than the stock cartridge, as well as being rebuildable. On the downside, it is quite noisy. I called White Bros. about this and they said it was normal to have some small air bubbles in the cartridge when new. Supposedly, the air will work its way out after a few rides. Well, it's been a few rides and the thing is still noisy. Time will tell if it holds up over time. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Justin Revenaugh
a cross-country rider
from Santa Cruz, CA
Date Reviewed: July 4, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
Buy these! Imagine your Judy as she felt when brand new and the cartridge
hadn't leaked yet. Now imagine it better still. These springs rule. More
supple than MCU, permanent, and not temperature tempermental. Great stuff.
The only imperfection I've found (apart from adding weight, but who cares
given the ride) is that the fork will top out when road riding. Okay, I
know, so what, Judy's aren't road forks. I'm just mentioning it. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Rick Scheuer
a cross-country rider
from Salt Lake, UT
Date Reviewed: June 14, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
I have to admit, I haven't been that impressed with the Judy XC after riding 3 seasons with AMP shocks. The AMP's were light, had no flex and worked well in most conditions. I've added a pair of blue Judd springs and the difference is amazing. Can't understand why they aren't standard in the shocks to start with. The judy's still will scare me with some flex on a fast downhill, but try a pair. You'll see the difference the first time. | | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Greg Ackerman
a weekend warrior
from Irvine, Ca. USA
Date Reviewed: May 15, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
After blowing out my Judy XC's cartridge I decided to go all out and upgrade
to the White Bros HardBody plus cartridge and the White Bros Judd spring set.
This took a little work on my part but now my '95 Judy XC's have 60mm of
adjustable compression/damper travel! I also love the springs instead of the
MCU bumpers. The springs are smoooottthhhh and no big hits when the shocks
bottom out. The system is better than I expected. I give the system 4 out
of 5 stars only due to the high cost. I spent about $230 total for the
conversion (needed a longer neutral shaft and the hole bolt to allow access
to the cartridge adjuster.).
| | Overall Rating: |
Submitted by
Matt OToole
a cross-country rider
from CA
Date Reviewed: April 12, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
After wearing out a set of Judy bumpers and not having them
warrantied, I decided to get a set of Judd springs. I have found
them to be an improvement over bumpers. They move over the little
ripples just as well, and have a longer effective midrange travel,
with no harsh bottoming. The standard spring is stiffer than
an all-blue Judy stack, and perfect for my 170lb weight. This is
in spite of White Bros. recommending the next heavier spring for me,
according to their chart.
They're a little bouncy with the stock damping cartridge, but the
improvement in overall action outweighs the less than perfect damping.
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Submitted by
Ben
a downhiller
from Fremont, CA
Date Reviewed: March 31, 1996 | | Bottom Line: |
The White Bros. Judd Springs is an excellent upgrade for anyone with a Judy fork who wants a smoother, linear compression rate. I also noticed that the Springs do not top out as harshly as the stock MCU stack. The Springs also gave me more control on the big hits and are much more forgiving to small and ripple bumps as well. The only disadvantage to the Springs is that they add about an 1/8 lb. to your bike. Other than that, I would highly recommend using it in your fork. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. You will notice a huge difference in suppleness the first minute you ride with it!
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