Submitted by
Yitzhak
a Cross Country Rider
from Hod Hasharon, Israel
Date Reviewed: October 18, 2007
Strengths: My riding is mixed dirt road and single-track, often with loose dirt or gravel of various sizes. Steps but no jumps. I'm persistent but not wild.
Climbing. Can stay on the bike at lower speeds than others while climbing on rough terrain, which means I can make it to the top even when stronger guys run out of steam.
Weaknesses: I'd appreciate more sensitive response to small bumps in the back. Also, had major problems with the shifting from medium to small chain ring in the front. Eventually stopped working. Found out that the chain ground the thick part of the shifter arm. FOUND A FANTASTIC SOLUTION: using clay-like epoxy that I wrapped around the relevant area of the arm, I made it slightly thicker than originally and, most important, extended the thick part by somewhere 5-10mm. The result is that regardless of sag, the thick part makes contact and easily pushes the chain from medium to small chain ring. Problem gone!!! Did this a month ago, and no signs of wear so far as 1) the epoxy is harder than Shimano XTR's aluminum for that part, and 2) the contact is brief, which was not the case when shifting was marginal.
Bottom Line:
Very nice bike, especially once shifting has become reliable. The only thing I regret is not having an adjustable fork in order to be able to raise the front when descending for a more comfortable and safe feeling.
The original description by the guy at the store perhaps best describes it: you feel unsure whether you really have a rear suspension, but after a day long ride you have this funny smile and joyful look.
Similar Products Used: Tried out Santa Cruz Blur quite extensively. Liked the Blur better going down, but less so when climbing because the crank "sinks" when hitting a bump, so I often found it climbing a step as if it were a wheel.
Bike Setup: Palomino XX, small frame, full XTR as it comes. Replace the stem and handlebar to fit me better.
Strengths: Many strengths, when you have it dialed in. I agree with the praise from others at this site. My Klein Adept was stolen, and at first I did not like the replacement, but that has changed. The Palomino is even better. I am 188 cm, and chose a Large frame, rather than Extra large. I like the agility even if I lose something in speed. I bike around in the city, as well as terrain. I have to have the rear shock quite stiff, to get the right geometry, and I changed the stem to get the bar adjusted upwards. Properly adjusted, the bike is a nr 1 in versatility, you can go anywhere, fast and enjoyable.
Weaknesses: Monolink upgrade should be included. Rather stiff price (in my case). What may seem to be frame related may be gear related. Better wheels, etc are very well received indeed with this frame. Back brake is noisy, maybe not well enough adjusted
Bottom Line:
After a month, I find this gives me considerably more bike enjoyment than the Adept, which by itself was very good. I've had back problems and therefore need a rear damped solution, and the monolink especially outperforms the Adept rear damping construction in one major aspect - now, I can stand up and pedal without bobbing or losing much energy due to sag in the rear damping. I like the disk brakes but the bike is a bit heavy even with the lighter wheels.
Similar Products Used: Klein Adept Comp (five years) New Scott carbon hardtail (demo trial) Other mid-class hardtails (before the Adept)
Bike Setup: 2004 frame Avid juicy 5 hydr brakes Rock shox Tora front shock Deore gear shifters XT crank LX back Wheels special-built light-weight (replacing Alex) Specialized Fast Trac 26x2
Weaknesses: linkage requires an upgrade Klein nor Maveric stand behind the flaw in the design a bering replacment kit sells for $325 when it should be provided for free a a design flaw replacement
Bottom Line:
once the design flaw was fixed great bike but you now wonder if the frame fails will they blame the upgraded linkage? the frame is thin and does dent easily
Bike Setup: Hayes brks xt drive train and shifters
Overall Rating:
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Submitted by
kevin
a Cross Country Rider
from idaho
Date Reviewed: November 13, 2005
Strengths: climbs like no other full suspension bike ive tried,no bob whatsoever.beautiful construction and attention to detail.
Weaknesses: it is hard to find the sweet spot for this bike but once you do...
Bottom Line:
if people whine about the front derailleur they do not have the bike dialed in correctly.i have no issues with mine now--sure it took a few rides with adjustments as i rode but it was well worth the extra trouble to have a full suspension bike that climbs like a hardtail without having to lock out rear-end.highly recommended!!!
Bike Setup: fox forx talas rlc,ritchey elevader and excavator
Overall Rating:
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Submitted by
David
a Cross Country Rider
from Los Angeles, CA
Date Reviewed: November 6, 2005
Strengths: No pedal bob or feedback at all. Paint looks wonderful.
Weaknesses: Not the lightest, I'd estimate the weight of my large 2004 frame at right around 6 pounds. Would prefer bearing pivots rather than bushings, but no maintenance problems at all so far.
Bottom Line:
Really does climb like a hardtail. This was my first FS bike after riding hardtails for like 15 years.
The best way to describe the suspension is unobtrusive. I'm really not aware of the suspension when I ride, I just notice that I'm going faster, have less fatigue, and can stay seated and pedal smoothly through rocky sections that I used to have to stand up for on my hardtail. Lateral stiffness is excellent, there is no wag in the rear. I also am descending MUCH faster than before.
Similar Products Used: None, really. This was my first FS bike.
Bike Setup: Sid World Cup, Crossmax SL discs, SRAM X9 drivetrain, Hayes HFX 9 carbon discs, Fire XC Pro tires, various nice parts. Total weight is 25.6 on an accurate scale.
Overall Rating:
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Submitted by
bill
a Cross Country Rider
from mableton, ga.
Date Reviewed: January 21, 2005
Strengths: Klein's usual meticulousness with the frame. Ride; XC riding is great, i.e. handles hi-cadence, cornering and tek areas really well.
Weaknesses: Dialing in...conflicting info from Klein and Maverick on setting rear shock pressure vs. weight. Incorrect pressure (Klein pressure vs. weight suggestion)dramatically effects front shifting.
Bottom Line:
First, I'm a clydesdale, 6'1" 225lb. The Palomino XX frame is a replacement for breaking my Mantra Race. Kudos to Klein for sticking behind their product. I was hesitant about the Palomino for 2 reasons, loved my Mantra and reading the "dialing in" issues (e.g. front shifting) Well, after a couple trips for front derailluer adjustments by my LBS, without success, this isn't a knock on the LBS, they were just following the Klein Manual suggestions. I went to the Maverick site and noted they recommend 90% of your weight vs. lb. pressure, this is 40% higher than what Klein recommends in their manual. Now remember I'm a clydesdale...I set the shock at 200lbs on my next ride. Like magic, all my shifting problems were gone, rubbing disappeared...now I'm a happy rider and truly impressed with the Palomino. It deals with all the aspects of XC I ride, better than the Mantra. One downside, not as plush...I'll survive. Have experimented with the pressure setting and have discovered I can go as low as 180 w/out front shifting issues (smooth terrain). Recommend clydesdales use the Maverick per centage suggestion, not the Klein.
Strengths: EVERYTHING! this bike to pretty for words.
Weaknesses: To pretty for words.
Bottom Line:
Here' an update on my impressions of this bike.(see below) It's truly amazing. After a trip to tahoe including mr. toads, and a trip to mammoth this bike rips! My previous complant about front shifting is gone.I think now that the cable stretch is gone it shifts great.the rear shock pressure for my weight is 153(recomended) psi but for more active suspension on really tecnical trails i can drop the psi to 140 with no ill efects on front shifting. I love the X.O Shifting. the rear is 100% better than shimano. I have to up date price paid to. the $4900 included the fox fork but since i overhauled my '03 rock shox sl psylo its working awesome so price paid $4200. OOOWEE! Plus i got 5" travle up front for the decents. I'v got alot of hours on this bike now and all linkage is as stiff and tight as the day i bought the frame. there is absolutly no bob either. when you lock out the fork, stand up and hammer,Stiff and Solid! I'll stop here or I'll just keep blabbing.
Bike Setup: Klein Palomino XX custom paint and name (looks really sweet),Chris King headset,Wheel set:Chris King disc hubs ,Mavis 819 disc(thanks Vision Cyclery),Sram X.O all around, Maverick D-mount and shimano Dura Ace Triple Front derailier,Thomson seat post and stem,Hayes mag plus brakes(modulation and stopping power,perfect balance),Rock Shox Psylo SL fork ,Shimano XT cranks,Frog Speedplay Pedals,Easton Monkeybar
Overall Rating:
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Submitted by
Charles rediger
a Cross Country Rider
from San Francisco
Date Reviewed: July 11, 2004
Strengths: Fit and finish, frame feels like my '97 attitude race but better (Butter).
Weaknesses: Possibly Front shifting.
Bottom Line:
I Built this bike from the ground up and i have to say, its exceeding all exspectations. On my Hardtail i could climb almost anything now i feel i can climb anything. This bike sprints like a hardtail to. This Bike does everything so Beautifuly. Now the decents. I'v easaly added 8 mph to my downhill speed,and thats my second ride. After useing shimano shifters and derailirs for for the last foreverever, the sram X.O Gripshift and r. derailier is a welcome releif. The Hayes Mag Plus just keep getting better by the minute. The Klein frame is a work of art and rides like one to. The Maverick design is the Perfect balance. For those who have riden el corta madera creek (Technical climbs and blazing decents) thats what this bike is best at! and distance, lots of it. All that Love being said, the Front shifting is the weeklink. the bike shifts fine but chain rub is the only thing. If say im in the middle chainring and the chain is in the center of the cassette i can go mabey shift 3 gears up or down and the chain rub starts. sometimes 2 gears depending on the ratio.this requires constent f. derailier adjustment via shifter. I'v done as Maverick has suggested and agian no shifting promblems, just some chain rub.I am still playing with rear shock air presser (sag) and I,v heard once that's dialed the chain rub goes away. I can't think of a better bike for my riding style,Very aggressive XC.Steep technical decents.Steep technical climbs. This bike is a pleasure!
Similar Products Used: Various Hard tails. last ride '97 attitude race,beautiful to look at, beautiful to ride.
Bike Setup: Klein Palomino XX custom paint and name (looks really sweet),Chris King headset,Wheel set:Chris King disc hubs ,Mavis 819 disc(thanks Vision Cyclery),Sram X.O all around, Maverick D-mount and shimano Dura Ace Triple Front derailier,Thomsome seat post and stem,Hayes mag plus brakes(modulation and stopping power,perfect balance),Rock Shox Psylo SL fork (waiting for Fox f100x),Shimano XT cranks,Frog Speedplay Pedals,Easton Monkeybar.
Overall Rating:
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Submitted by
pete
a Cross Country Rider
from chelsea quebec canada
Date Reviewed: May 31, 2004
Strengths: climbs like a billy goat
Weaknesses: tubes are thin as hell, dented top tup with my back rack
Bottom Line:
was somewhat skeptical of both no bob rear suspension, and inertia valve (automatic lockout) fox forx, but man oh man, i thought i could do anything with my jekyll, well the klein has just redefined everything except the crazy downhills i could do with jekyll morphing frame geometry. THe klein carves like a scalpel, climbs like it has wings and descends at speeds that are dizzying. The center of gravity is just right for technical climbs in the Gatineau park, and short quick drop offs and descents. Overall, a real pleasure to ride knowing that you can ride over almost everything
Submitted by
Howard Radcliffe
a Cross Country Rider
from Sevenoaks Kent UK
Date Reviewed: May 24, 2004
Strengths: Very Fast!! Rear Suspension is superb, Fox fork is very excellent, New XTR very impressive, Bontrager wheels very good
Weaknesses: Very Fast, when you do fall off, you will be going much faster than you're used to!! Not too sure about the saddle comfort. Tyres are not particularly grippy, even compared to my usual choice of Hutchinson Pythons. Not as light as I thought it would be. I guess my Attitude was a lot lighter than I thought it was if this bike is sub 25lbs
Bottom Line:
OK, I had a long think about this bike before purchasing due to a) Not too sure whether to switch to full suspension for racing and b) Negative comments regarding the front shifting.
With regards to the rear suspension, its awesome. To be honest the first time I went out on the bike I was a little dissappointed, because the bike didnt really feel any different to my hardtail. When I realised that the ride was far more comfortable, but that the bike had the characteristics of a hard tail, I realised that Klein had achieved what seemed impossible, all the benefits of a hardtail, combined with all the benefits of full suspension, but with the drawbacks of either.
With regards to the front shifting, I can say that once you have the shock dialled in at the rear, with around 90% of your bodyweight in psi in the shock, there are no issues. Shifting is certainly no harder than previous XTR and I would say that there is less chain rub on the front mech when in the granny ring than there is on my hardtail with XTR, so go figure. Granted you have to set the bike up properly, but when you do, it rides and shifts so sweetly, you wouldn't believe it.
The new XTR has impressed me far more than I thought it would do. I like the lever shifting action. Not sure whether there's any real benefit compared to STI, but there you go. I've already taken off the training thumb shifers, as I never used them. Rapid rise catches you out every so often, when you find yourself downshifting, rather than up, but apart from that, no problems. To be honest I have had more of an issue with rapid rise coming from my road bike, with 2004 Dura ace shifters, than I have coming from STI. Mainly because Dura Ace are also lever shifters and the rear mech is conventional rise.
The Bontrager wheels seem very good, I've used Bontragers for quite some time, both on MTB and Road bikes and they really work well, I weigh around 190lbs and there are no issues with flex. Not too sure about the tyres though, they dont seem particularly grippy with my normal choice of Hutchinson Pythons, which are not an aggressive tread, so to be less grippy is quite an achievment!!
Switching to 100mm travel fork made the front seem a little high, but I've dropped the stem down on the stack by an 1" and it feels much better.
Despite worrying that having the seat high would put the seat too far back has not been an issue, as the front end is 1" short than my attitude, in fact with the seat at my preferred height, I still have to have the seat all the way back on the rails, as the seatpost on my bike doesnt have any offset.
In summary the bike is awesome, the more I ride it the more it impresses me. The whole package works together so well. The bike, despite being a lb or 2 heavier than my hardtail, is extremely fast at covering ground. I was going to race the beginning of the season on my hardtail and then move over to the Palomino later in the year, but I think I will use it straight off, its that good.
If you've got the money, then buy one, suspension is far better than Fuel 100. Not too sure how much better it is than the XV, but if you must have XTR and Terra Logic fork, then go for it. Its still great value, despite the cost when you look at what you are getting
Similar Products Used: Klein Attitude, ridden for many years. Also tested Palomino XV, Trek Fuel 100
Bike Setup: Completely stock at the moment
Overall Rating:
Value Rating:
Submitted by
Gem Mookherjea
a Racer
from Somewhere in NJ looking for a trail!
Date Reviewed: May 8, 2004
Strengths: I recieved the 2004 Palomino XXframe as a warranty replacement from Klein, my previous 2003 frame was off center and chainline off center. I suspect the bushings failed prematurely(under 100miles), and I didnt want to just replce them with a set which had design that would only fail again: The 2004 has a different bushing and locknut. It also seems to be built with better attention to tolerances. The Maverick Air rear shock is far more responsive and supple, I ride it at about 87% of my body weight.
Weaknesses: The E Type bracket setup was tricky and I have it working well, understanding that the design finds the chain/derailleur rub 'acceptable' and once you get used to the sound, it hardly affcts performance or shifting IF you have it adjusted JUST right, and sure there may be some rub related wear, but hey, buy yourself a new derailer every few years, it won't kill ya.
Bottom Line:
BUY IT! As advertised this is everything Klein says it is and more:as a sub $4K bike the Palomino 2004 rocks, the new rear triangle is stiff and the shock is butter, it overcame ALL the shortcomings Klein Palomino had in 2003:KLEIN makes a great bike, period(emphasis- GRRREEAT!!), If I had the "$5,000 dollars for the Maverick frame alone" I'd also consider the ML7 only for its bearings vs. the Palomino XX's bushings, which means you must PLAN to take CARE of your BIKE rather than wait for disaster due to neglect or poor care, poor lube habits or poor washing regimen. You can ride it hard. Buy it only if you have the tiem to care for it or can afford to ahve it tuned but a good Klein dealer who is familieer with Palominos. Smile, you're on a Klein.
Similar Products Used: Cannondale Jekyll, have test ridden FSRs, Adept, Trek Fuels, owned a Klein hardtail and would buy Klein again, thanks to their amazing warranty staff and support
Bike Setup: You get what you pay for so spend it, do it right the 1st time-->XTR:Wheels,hubs,pedals,shifters, cassette and disc brakes...XT Hollowtech II cranks and hydraulic brake levers. Monkey bar with Onza's, Thomson SP & Stem, Terry Tri Gel saddle, Fox 100RLC, Panaracer Tubeless with 5cc's of Stans to conquer weekly air leakage
Overall Rating:
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Submitted by
Don Ricker
a Racer
from Moncton, NB Canada
Date Reviewed: April 30, 2004
Strengths: The Maverick design is top tier. Nothing i've been on touches it for effectiveness. Fox front end is a perfect balance. Bontrager wheels are nice and light but can't comment on durability as of yet.
Weaknesses: Tad heavy compared to a fuel 100 or Scalpel but it offers 4" of travel vs 3 or 2.5. Bontrager seat is a joke and the seatpost is overweight too. Klein Grips...give me a break!
Bottom Line:
Rode a friends Pal XV last year and didn't want to like it. But after each ride i couldnt' get over how well the suspension worked. Fuels were primitive in comparison. Stand up and it just plain hammers. everything locks out till you hit a bump, it activates and locks out again after. I can't wait till my first sprints! I was on a ti hardtail last year, in races i constantly lost ground on the downhills sections, this year i'm looking foward to them. The Klein gets smoother with speed (i've got it set to full race stiffness now with my body weight in air in the shock and the Fox pumped up to 80psi) it literally made the bumps seem to dissapear on a big ring downhill last night. I will have to start adusting my horizon line so that i don't come into turns too hot, so far thats the biggest problem with the bike...its too fast. I'll re-report after a few races and see if its up to that challenge. Other comments; its paint is too nice to scratch, xtr is xtr but the new shifting will take some additional hand strength during races as compared to the triggers of old. Klein has a very neutral balanced feel to the handling, i still find myself riding beyond myself on the trail but soon that should get adjusted for. I love the bike, if it was 1-2 pounds lighter it'd be flawless.
Similar Products Used: Fuel 90, fuel 100,jekyll 900.
Bike Setup: Full stock except Porkrind grips, SLR saddle and Bontrager XXX carbon post. Looking to swap out Bontrager tires too.
Overall Rating:
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Submitted by
andy lale
a Cross Country Rider
from london
Date Reviewed: April 7, 2004
Strengths: very light, very fast, fantastic front fork, great paint job
Weaknesses: terrible decision to put the front derailleur on a movable bottom bracket link! I can't beleive the stupidity of this- it means that unless you have the back fork pumped up ridged the chain rubs against the bottom plate of the derailleur when the suspension depresses when the chain slackens on small cogs at the back. Because of where the derailleur is placed it is also ridiculously hard to change up on the left hand shifter. A small peice of inner gear cable may eleiviate this problem im gonna try it but otherwize I think its big cable wearing problems in 3 months time and a knackered left hand shifter. I wrote to klein and they told me not to use that combination of gears! Also seat stem not long enough for 'road racer height'
Bottom Line:
I love this bike but partly thats because ive spent so much money! I bet they'll change the set up for the next model.
I'm selling my Large 2004 Palomino XX. fully stock (new drivetrain/tires/grips) and my fox fork has just returned from fox with new seals/oil and upgraded guts.
its in excellent Read More »
